Processwire is longterm

[cssabc123]

I think this is a valid question, anybody who worked with software for sometime knows the importance of the viability of a software.  Case in point Java superseded C in popularity, Dbase/Foxtpro/Clipper are no more, and not too long ago Gumby ended its journey. Some like Pygame still exist but no longer actively developed. What do you think, how Processwire will fare in longterm?  By the way how many people are committed in developing Processwire?

[pwired]

I get your point: will Processwire still exist in the future ? This question has been asked a few times already and to my opinion answers have been a bit vague about it. But the answer is: yes Processwire will still exist in the future. Even in the worst case scenario when no developer team would exist anymore. I base my opinion on the fact that the core of Processwire is coded so very well, that it is php version proof for a long time to come. But that worst case scenario is very unlikely to happen. As you may have noticed, both developers and coders are attracted to Processwire for the beautiful way how it works and therefore it is no coincedence that the forum of Processwire is filled with high skilled coders. So, if for whatever reason the developers team would cease to exist, other coders will step in immediately to continue Processwire. If your thoughts are about if Processwire will be superseded by another cms/cmf system in the future, this is also very unlikely. The vast majority of Processwire users came from other cms/cmf systems they where using before. It is because of being frustrated with the ruled limited ways of other cms/cmf systems they ended up with Processwire. This in it self is another indicator that Processwire will be there in the future.

[apeisa]

It depends how you define "longterm".

We (Avoine) started using ProcessWire 2011 for inhouse projects and 2012 for clients. 6 years soon, and I feel we are just getting started. PW 2.0 was released 2010, but it's roots are in 2003: https://processwire.com/about/background/

So I would say PW is longterm.

[cssabc123]

@apeisa is Padloper open source? What is the license?

[pwired]

commercial license

https://www.padloper.pw/

[elabx]

I have a lot of faith in Processwire's future.  I´m a graphic designer who happens to do web development, and I could not be happier with how easy it is to grasp Processwire's foundations and even more complex coding like making modules. 

So I think in the near future we will see a lot of non-technical background people having "AHA" moments when finding out about Processwire.  I mean, the API is just pants dropper!

[tpr]

Perhaps you should ask about PHP's future instead. ProcessWire is only a tool that helps you utilizing its features. There might come other similarly handy tools in the future but currently it's among the bests. So I guess PHP will stay with us for a while and I'm sure PW too

[cssabc123]

SS contributors 271, Joomla got 406, PW  4. You're thoughts.

[adrian]

There are arguments both for and against have many contributors on a project - I have been involved with OS projects at both ends of the spectrum and while it may appear to be a limitation on the surface to have less contributors, the advantage is that with all code changes going through Ryan we can be sure that the high standard he has set is being maintained. There are many more than 4 contributors to the core - most of those with the STAFF badge have made contributions (and probably many more without) and you will likely see their name/handle mentioned in the core code on the features they have contributed to.

If you are worried that only one core developer will mean slower progress with adding of new features, I think the weekly blog posts and GH commits show that this is not an issue! - what other CMS is getting as many cool new features as PW on a weekly basis?

Who knows whether this will change in the future for PW, and certainly no software will live forever, but for the relevant future timeframe there are plenty of users around here who will want to keep this project progressing should anything happen to Ryan (either physically or with changes to his priorities), but I know that somewhere in these forums he committed to working on PW for the rest of his career.

[renobird]

SS contributors 271, Joomla got 406, PW  4. You're thoughts.

Very different philosophies for how the core is developed and maintained. As Adrian mentioned, the quality of the core is very high, and Ryan's review process has insured it stays that way. Looking at those numbers is apples to oranges.

[cb2004]

Those numbers to me prove 1 thing, less is more. I have tried and tested many CMS platforms. I was guided in the direction of PW and started using it about 6 months ago. My search for an extremely feature rich, easy to use CMS seems complete. It only took 16 years.

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings,

SS contributors 271, Joomla got 406, PW  4. You're thoughts.

I actually laughed a bit when I saw this!  Sorry...  I spent 4 years developing with Joomla, and having all those contributors didn't make the system better than ProcessWire.  Just the opposite.  That's why I went through the painful steps of converting all of my projects from Joomla to PW.

In the long-term, I have more confidence in ProcessWire than in other more "popular" frameworks.  Although ProcessWire appears to be newer, its roots actually trace back over a decade, so it already has a solid long-term life!

But more important than how old a system is, I look to how carefully and intelligently it progresses.  Because of his experience, Ryan makes wise decisions about where PW needs to change (or not), and that kind of careful decision-making builds the system's long-term viability.

Sure, other frameworks are more flashy, but I have less confident in their intelligent life because of the way they chase trendy ideas.  Ryan does not do this, so I ultimately have more confidence in ProcessWire.

Let's be honest: it would be just as easy for me (or any other developer here) to jump over to Laravel, because right now it is the shiny new PHP toy.  But I don't, because I have much more confidence in PW.

And I agree that we could ask the question about long-term viability about PHP itself.

Thanks,

Matthew

[cssabc123]

How many significant websites (top 500 worldwide) run on PW?  The likes of Smalltalk and ADA were all well thought of systems but never realy took off.  Wordpress is #1 for a reason (https://wordpress.com/activity). Your thoughts.

[diogo]

How many significant websites (top 500 worldwide) run on PW?  The likes of Smalltalk and ADA were all well thought of systems but never realy took off.  Wordpress is #1 for a reason. Your thoughts.

Too busy building one more PW website to answer to this question...

[Martijn Geerts]

@cssabc123

There are more bananas sold with paper stickers then without.

Are bananas with stickers better then bananas without?

[cssabc123]

Any unemotional, professional, and objective answers?  But it's okay any reaction is welcome. I will add that I am a PW supporter/fan myself, this is all for insight for us all.  I am on your side. Thank you.

[LostKobrakai]

Even objectively is the (current) community of processwire neither smaller nor larger just by the number of contributors that's shown at GitHub. It may not attract new people as much and it may downturn people who are – instead of taking a look at the cms itself – looking at the raw numbers, but so be it. It's Ryan's decision to not use the pull-request feature, which would increase this number a bit. The focal point of this community is either way this forum and the people here.

[Beluga]

How many significant websites (top 500 worldwide) run on PW?  The likes of Smalltalk and ADA were all well thought of systems but never realy took off.  Wordpress is #1 for a reason (https://wordpress.com/activity). Your thoughts.

Smalltalk and ADA are programming languages, though. Btw. you can build web apps with Smalltalk http://www.aidaweb.si/ and Ada https://github.com/stcarrez/ada-awa

What is the reason Wordpress is #1?

[cb2004]

Wordpress is number 1 because so many people install it, add a theme/plugins and call themselves a web developer. Remember that is number 1 for the amount of websites it is running, not number 1 voted for by every developer in the world, it would no doubt be a different story then. Does Wordpress have a place running websites, sure, but I like to think of myself as a web developer, not a Wordpress maintainer, which is what so many people become when they take on Wordpress sites, and why I steer clear of it (if I can).

This conversation comes up a lot, but stick to what works best for you for a project at the end of the day. I know what my projects will run off for the foreseeable future.

[Beluga]

Still interested in the reason that was on cssabc123's mind.

[cssabc123]

Some comments here are pointing out how great PW for developers, but a CMS should not be only for developers, if PW's direction is to make it only for developers then I let others comment on that. One reason WP is #1 is because even non developers can use it easily as a CMS , as it should be like that for a CMS.  Take for example Windows and Unix, Windows is more popular, but IOS took over, and IOS is based on Darwin (Unix). Can PW take a hint from IOS?

[cb2004]

But that is the market that Wordpress caters for, I disagree strongly that every CMS should be geared towards the non-developer. Is Processwire easy to use for a non-developer once it is setup, oh yes, easiest thing ever.

Question; what does a non-developer do when they cannot progress their Wordpress site any further? They have installed so many plugins trying to do what they wanted to do, its crawled to a halt and made it vulnerable turning the agency they hand it over to into a Wordpress maintainer. What does somebody who is using Shopify do when they grow too big for it? Point being there are tools which are great for starting something, and there are tools that are great for starting something and finishing the job properly. I like where I am going with tools. Wordpress is a screwdriver, Processwire is a power drill . Processwire will go wherever your imagination takes you, quicker and easier, right here, right now [citation needed]. What the future holds nobody really knows. What if some great developers left Wordpress and screwed it up, that could happen, there is no crystal ball.

Lets not forget that Wordpress is a blog, and will always be developed as a blog. Even in the activity link you posted, they comment heavily on blogging. I would love to see how many Wordpress installs are actually active and not just sitting on a server getting auto updated. Wordpress with the ACF plugin kind of turns it into a CMS, but ACF is a hog.

I go back to my previous post and extend it. Long-term, my personal choice right now is to use Processwire, it seems perfect for my business model. Once setup I can let most of my clients run away with it with no manual, telephone calls or handover meetings.

Not really sure on the Windows, Unix, iOS comparison, or how iOS took over?

[cssabc123]

Good answer, I'm taking notes and learning.

[adrian]

but a CMS should not be only for developers

Why not ?

Seriously though - the fact that PW is targeted more to developers than many other systems was one of the key reasons I got interested in it. I didn't want something that was fully automated, drag 'n' drop - they can only take you so far before you end up screaming and just wanting to punch out a few lines of code to get done what you want.

There are CMSs that fit along the entire spectrum from fully automated to very code centric, and that is a good thing - we can find the position along that continuum that suits us best - for me, that spot is PW. I know that it will probably never be the sexiest option out there, but it gets the job done in a way more efficient manner for how I like to work!

Also, as others have pointed out, PW doesn't really require much initial coding knowledge - just a little willingness to learn. Sure, you won't be creating the next social network with it unless you have some serious coding skills, but you can certainly churn out a website for your cat without too much effort so long as you are not initially scared off. There has been some discussion here about making PW more non-dev friendly and it would certainly be possible to build something on top of it, but personally I think that would just lower the bar of the people using it - btw, this is not meant to sound snobbish - I just like the current user base

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings,

Some comments here are pointing out how great PW for developers, but a CMS should not be only for developers, if PW's direction is to make it only for developers then I let others comment on that. One reason WP is #1 is because even non developers can use it easily as a CMS , as it should be like that for a CMS.  Take for example Windows and Unix, Windows is more popular, but IOS took over, and IOS is based on Darwin (Unix). Can PW take a hint from IOS?

This has come up before, and you can find some answers in various places on the forum.

You get deep design/development freedom with ProcessWire.  That freedom requires a certain level of coding knowledge.  WP and other "drag-and-drop" systems may be easier for people who never want to deal with code, and who just want to check boxes and install plugins.  But those systems either don't allow the kinds of customized work you can do with PW.  Or those "easier" systems are actually a lot harder in the long run when you need to do custom work.  Run a quick Google search on developer attitudes about working with WordPress code!  In my mind, WordPress is driven in large part by misinformation from clients about what's "easier."

The audience for ProcessWire is people who are more comfortable with code.  I think it's a good idea to be clear about this.

Generally, with development systems/frameworks, you can either have something that's "easier" or you can have something that's "more capable."  ProcessWire comes as close as any system out there to bringing the two together.

Thanks,

Matthew