ProcessWire for Designers

[jploch]

Hello guys,

Iam Jan a web/graphic designer from germany. For the last 2 weeks I was searching for a great cms soulution for small to medium-sized companies. My customers are artist, photographers, small agencys or startups.

I really like the way PW works, because it seems like I can design everything and dont have to force the design in the system.

I can write HTML/CSS and can implement JQuery as I would do on a static website, than I can make it dynamic using PW.

Still there is one thing I struggle with, and thats to lern PHP. Iam by no means a programmer and I will never be one. I can see me learning the basics but would like to write PHP code as little as possible.

I have tryed Wordpress for a small website and while I think PW is a much better/cleaner solution, I do like how it handels themes, plugins and backend UI.

For me the plugins can really save me some time in using functions, that I would never be able to implement on my own or with a lot of work.

To reach the Wordpress audience, there are some things that need to work better in PW in my opinion.

-Easy export/import of themes/profiles without using modules

-Showcase of themes/profiles on the PW site

-HTML framework integration (e.g. Bootstrap, Kickstart, 960grid) and showcase on the website.

-A simple Blog module. I know there is the Blog Profile but it seams a little to complicatet for me.

-A gallery module with JQery integration. That would be great for the not so tech savvy design guys like me and other WP users.

-Also a starter Tutorial on the Website (not the Forum) or a tutorial section would be cool, as some tutorials can be hard to find for a newbie.

-The button view in the backend when you hover a page is not nessesary in my opninion as you can view it unsing the button on the top when you in edit mode. The first Option here should be edit, as thats would a normal user would do in most cases.

Anyway I realy like PW and looking forward to use it on future project.

Thanks for reading

Jan

[Joss]

Hi Jan

ProcessWire is hugely more flexible that Wordpress and you don't need to know much php at all - in fact, the ability to copy and paste is probably more important! (Especially with all the help round here).

There is no strict theming system for ProcessWire in the way you would think of for Drumlapress (!) - basically because that would limit the creation of bespoke websites far too much.

The system as it works now means that as long as you can write good HTML and CSS, you can create a brilliant site, without having to learn a templating system. You can more or less approach it in the same way as you would a static site - though, of course, you can get a lot more clever too.

If you are looking to integrate it with a framework, then that is as easy as it is with a static site. But, so you get the idea, here is is a veyr stripped back basic profile using Bootstrap:

http://modules.processwire.com/modules/bootwire-starter-profile/

As for things like galleries and other plugins, because of the way the site is constructed  you can integrate ANY plugin without worrying about it having to fit in with the way the system works.

Since there is NO JQuery or anything else for the front end until you actually put it there, you wont run into any conflict trouble with anything supplied by ProcessWire.

You simply go and install the plugin in the way the developer says and then learn some very basic php and PW syntax to encorporate your data. Galleries are so simple that it is a joke.

As for things like blogs - if you want something very simple (a basic "post some news"  sort of thing) then it is so easy to create your own system to work the way you want it to.

So, all in all, although it would not be of instest to the average Wordpress user, for any designers out there, it is the perfect way for them not only to design what they want, but in the process learn some basic development skills, which never goes amiss!

I am a prime example - I am a copywriter, composer and advertising guru, and yet I am creating my own, very complex blog profile, have created several complex brochure site systems and am learning like mad.

I strongly suggest you read the following:

Showcase: http://processwire.com/talk/forum/9-showcase/

Detailed beginners tutorial: http://wiki.processwire.com/index.php/Basic_Website_Tutorial (written by me who is not a dev)

Explanation of Pages: http://wiki.processwire.com/index.php/Pages

You will also find that although there is some serious knowledge amongst the community here, not all of us are developers - but all of us have been surprised how much we have learned.

Stay and enjoy!
 

Joss

[onjegolders]

Brilliant answer Joss, said everything I wanted to as usual.

Welcome Jploch, as someone who approached PW with little or no PHP, believe me you only really need to learn the very basics to get going and once you start it'll make you want to learn more.

I would say that WP is ideal for non-designers. If you're a designer, surely you don't want you or your clients to be messing with changing themes?

You want to be free to code what you want and then hand it over to a client. Give PW a try, I think you'll find it's a perfect fit for the sort of work you do.

[typ9]

Hey jploch! Joss and onjegolders just said it!

Actually my profile would sound quite similar to yours: designer with zero PHP knowledge - and little motivation to do so (though it grew once I started using PW). And I‘ve already bought a book about PHP in the first place, cause I was expecting lot of PHP to handle PW. But it turned out as Joss said: for solving problem I visit the forum or look around in the PW-API or About section - and I find the solution(s). 

I'm still learning an still working on my first to websites - which both were static and pretty close to finished when I decided to make them dynamic via PW. But being independent from themes, plugins or whatever makes PW so much fun to work with. PW works exact the way I always thought CMSs would work (but they didn't, as I found out).

So I would suggest: give PW a first try - and try to solve your needs by getting galleries and blogs to work just simply using PW. I'm sure - with the help of this forum - you will succed. (I'm hoping the same for my projects. )

[niutech]

@jploch: If you don't want to use PHP at all in your templates, why don't you try my Smarty Templating module? It's very easy to create a new template using Smarty tags and ProcessWire objects like {$page}.

[jploch]

first of all thanks guys for the quick reply!

@Joss

your links are really helpful! I will definitely check out the tutorial.

I have seen the showcase section. There is some really great stuff. I think it would be cool if the best sites would be presented with an thumnail view and a small description, mudules used etc. somewhere on the website rather than only to show them in the forum. Maybe that could work to attract more people to this great cms. Just some thoughts...

One thing thats great about the wp themes, is that its a great source of income for a small designer like me. And I was thinking if this will probably be something to be considered for the future of pw too. As right now the export/import function of themes in pw seems to be inferior to the way wp handels themes.

Thats just a small issue I have. I defenetly cant wait to use PW for my next project!

@onjegolders

I will try my best to learn the basics in PHP. I have just finished the beginners tutorial from Rayn (http://processwire.com/talk/topic/693-small-project-walkthrough-planets/) and I needed some time to realise how easy it was! I think you are right about WP. Its a mainstream bloging platform mainly buld to do blogs for people not knowing any kind of tech stuff. While its possible to do nearly any kind of web project with it, it often feels that ist not realy build for that. What is great about WP for me is the big user base and the possibility to sell themes.

@Georgson

Its really cool that PW has so much core functionality and still is so easy to use. I hate the way WP works with all the plugins you need, to do just simple stuff (e.g. Advanced Custom Fields). Its allways good to be independent.

Iam still a little worried about the photo galleries I have with the new projekt Iam working on. But with a little help from this great comunity it will all work out

@niutech

I heared about smarty (mainly as something to eat )

If I understand it right smarty is some kind of php framework which replaces the original php syntax with shorter code?

Not sure if that will really help me that much. Maybe I just stick with basic PHP

[pogidude]

+1 for the Starter Tutorial.

It doesn't have to cover everything that PW can do. Just something that a new user or developer can follow and do in less than 10 minutes and get maybe a blog up and running.

[Joss]

Hi pogidude

There are two:

http://processwire.com/talk/topic/693-small-project-walkthrough-planets/ - which will take you very little time and show you the way PW works. From that you will be able to add pages and a structure.

http://wiki.processwire.com/index.php/Basic_Website_Tutorial - which is longer and will take you through more of the concepts, but also in a step by step way.

You don't need any experience for either, other than being able to install and access the files.

@jploch

There is no theme system for PW so it would be difficult to import themes like with Wordpress.

The problem is that no two sites created with ProcessWire are constructed the same way - the only thing in common, file wise, is they have a home.php file.

Some might have very obvious header and footer files, some may take a more delegated approach, some may do a patchwork system with lots of includes while others will use lots of functions. You may be using a bit of a frame work, a lot of a frame work or none at all. You might have every page in the site logically laid out on the page tree, or you may have pages grouped under different branches and then retrieved into your site in other ways.

Wordpress dictates the way you put your site together. It has to match the Wordpress structure and if you want to use lots of different JQuery, Mootools or other systems, you really need to have them adapted into a wordpress plugin of some kind.

PW does none of that. You are free to design your site however you wish.

That is the huge difference that makes PW much more powerful than Wordpress and the resulting websites better dedicated to the client they are designed to serve without the client having to compromise their needs simply to fit the system that they are using.

But it does make theming in the way you describe rather problematic - a theme you would create for your site would probably not fit a site I created at all.

[onjegolders]

Hi again jploch, the only real systems that support theming ecosystems I believe are the big 3 with WP by far the most active.

If you're looking at earning a living from making themes, ProcessWire probably isn't a great fit as, like Joss says Processwire sites can be built in many different ways.

You could still sell HTML templates and use them within PW but I know that the market for Wordpress themes is pretty large.

For me, the disadvantages that you spoke about (endless plugins and hacking of the core) are just too off-putting to use Wordpress (or Joomla or Drupal for that matter).

[jploch]

thanks, for pointing out the difference between the two systems. I have a better understanding now of how PW works.

For me its way more important to make custom websites, have the freedom to design anything I want and have a clean code, than selling themes.

So PW is obvious the better choice for me. Cant wait to start working with PW now

[Joss]

 Cant wait to start working with PW now

You will enjoy it. 

Although we have some pretty serious coders here, many users are also non-coders - though they appear to be going through some enjoyable if steep learning curves.

Do the tutorials as it will take a little of the mystery out of the system, then just play. 

I started by rebuilding a personal site so I didn't have to worry about content - just recreate the structure. I learned loads and it only took me a day or two to do it (it is a simple site, needless to say)

[Philipp]

I'm (or was) mostly a designer but managed to make Processwire Pages. As everybody said before: You will get clean, structured and fitting pages for the cost of pre-made templates and 1-click-solutions. On the other hand, that's exactly how design works: You just can't stick together different parts (=plugins) to create a real outstanding design. It doesn't work. Every design is unique and so are most PW pages. And to complete the analogy, you can reuse some design patterns again (for example Sliders and the JS Code behind) in Processwire.

If you have any trouble and lots of question, feel free to contact me via Skype or PM ( Auf Deutsch ist es vielleicht manchmal leichter / Sometimes it's easier in german) 

[ryan]

Also want to add that it's a pretty simple matter to take a theme (like a WordPress theme) and adapt it to ProcessWire. 

[Joss]

Also want to add that it's a pretty simple matter to take a theme (like a WordPress theme) and adapt it to ProcessWire. 

Strangely, I am just doing that.

I am moving a site from Joomla to ProcessWire and have been doing it basically by copying and pasting the elements.

Mind you, it is REALLY easy to lose your place, when you are trying to throw out all the Joomla bits in the process. It may have been quicker just to rewrite the bloody thing!

[DaveP]

@Joss, forgive me if this has occurred to you already, but when converting eg from Joomla to PW, open the Joomla template files in your editor and cut & paste, rather than copy & paste, then you know what ground you have covered and what is still to be done.

[Joss]

Hi Dave

The problem with that is that when I open the Joomla Page to try and work out why I did what whenever I did it, it now doesn't open because I have removed half the code!

I sort of want an editor that is a cross between a text editor and something like OneNote.

I want to be able to wrap nice, pretty visual boxes around code, so I can move them out of the way or close them up, but still have them clear and obvious (not like collapsing sections where you have no idea what you collapsed)

A bit like some of the more visual database designer systems would be fun

It wouldn't be any more efficient, but if you have lots of huge screens complete with a kinect thingy, you could have a great time and get exercise too!

[Vineet Sawant]

Hello jploch,

Welcome to Processwire forum.

Just like you, I'm also a designer & I've clients of similar kind like yours.

About 2 years ago, I was looking for a CMS which allows me to design dynamic websites but with my own design. I started Drupal(the very first CMS I tried), Joomla, Wordpress and almost 20 other free CMS but I could never get the required control on HTML.

But then I started using Textpattern which is really really simple CMS one of the best solution for small to mid sized websites. I'm still using it, its been almost 2 years now.

Textpattern is great when it comes to designing, just like Processwire, you have complete control on the design. But when it comes to making something that's out of CMS's limitations, you need a solution like Processwire.

I'm just a week old with Processwire and already loving it so much that I'd probably give second thought to using Textpattern to any of my next projects.

With Processwire, the possibilities are unlimited, you are never restricted to doing anything. Everything's just perfect, atleast for me it is.

This is an honest reply from a designer, I hope this helps you in some way.

[jploch]

@vineonardo

thx Man! interesting read.

In my search for a cms to fit my needs I also considered Textpattern and other smaller cms solutions like GetSimple, Wolf CMS or CouchCMS.

All those seemed to be great when it comes to smaller websites but lack flexibility and functions for bigger projects.

Iam glad that I finally found the best solution (PW).

The community seems to be really great too, nice to be part of it now

[pwired]

All those seemed to be great when it comes to smaller websites but lack flexibility and functions for bigger projects.

Promoting processwire is always good, but with such bold statements you should at least add some arguements to it. Before I ended up with processwire I evaluated getsimple and wolf cms. Getsimple has a fantastic backend and professional modules. Their forum is as active as the forum of processwire. In some channels even more active. It's been downloaded over 120.000 times. There's a reason for that. Getsimple is bound to xml for it's database so the performance will decrease beyond hundreds of pages. But then again, how many websites will be build between the 5 - 500 pages range ? How many between the 500 and thousands ? See what I mean ? Wolf cms has no more than a tabbed backend with tabs for pages, layout, snippets, files, etc. That's why it is very flexible because it leaves it up to you with it's api and your php coding skills. Wolf cms has no page limit, uses also sqlite3 and is compatible with php 5.4. The forum of wolf cms is almost dead but it is still updated on github.

[jploch]

@pwired

I may have exaggerated a little, due to me being very exited about PW as I learn more about it

I dont have that much experience with the mentioned CMS solutions. From what I read and tryed, I felt like Textpattern and CouchCMS seemed to lack a little flexibility.

For me the main problem with wolf cms was my lack of PHP knowledge. GetSimple seems to be really cool, but I like the content organization from PW more.

That said I do think all of them are great CMS solutions.

[wishbone]

Found this thread just right now.

Seems always the same thing.

If processwire wants to get people developping with wordpress or joomla or even drupal and such, there must be a better start.

As for myself, I'm a non coder as many, and I don't know many designers who are as "stubborn" as me to struggle through the wide spread documents.

I came from modX, because it was the only CMS where I could start from static html pages, replacing piece by piece the dynamic elements.

Then came modX revo and everybody said it's too heavy and clumpsy in the backend.

Then came those people who said revo made them move to processwire, people who were engaged a lot in modX.

So I tried it.  It's even more flexible than modX - but much I can't say yet ;-) But every time I touch it I'm fascinated how smoothy the handling is, how simple solitions once I checked them...

Every simple question has been answered by the incredible community! I don't know why they do that, it's almost like privat lessons ;-) guiding through the beginner's cliffs...

I missed a beginner's guide where to start. Still now I'm always searching via google for the documents!

There's got to be something to be done on that to attract more people coming from more prefabricated CMSes.

[Joss]

I think a lot of the users who would use WordPress (especially) but even Joomla and Drupal would probably not be that interested in ProcessWire (and I have no idea how Ryan would cope if half a million users suddenly knocked at the door!)

If a lack of instant solutions for every scenario is a weakness for some potential users, then that is a strength for others; those who might not actually want to get their hands dirty, but realise that that is the only way they are going to get the precise functionality they are looking for.

For those, ProcessWire is possibly easier than others!

On the docs side, various little efforts are happening in various places and will slowly come together. I have 3 tutorials now to get people started, starting with the Basic Website Tutrorial and of course the API section has all the nitty gritty bits, including the invaluable cheat sheet!

More will come along!

[Wanze]

I came from modX, because it was the only CMS where I could start from static html pages, replacing piece by piece the dynamic elements.

So you never had to write a snippet by yourself?

Because in ProcessWire, things are almost the same - but I think lots of people are scared about using php tags / variables.

For example:

//modx
[[*body]]

//processwire
<?= $page->body ?>

//modx
[[getResources? &parents=`1000` &sortby=`created` &showHidden=`1`]]

//processwire
$pages->find('parent=1000, sort=created, include_hidden=1');

Cheers

[Nico Knoll]

Hey,

two things:

First: If you need some german support you can contact me as well - I'm more developer than designer but doing some design stuff though. There's also a list with some other german developers (+ a showcase of some german pw sites) on the german pw site: http://de.processwire.com

Second: Some modules that could make your switch from WP to PW easier are:

• Soma's module manager: It allows you installing and searching modules from backend like wordpress does.
• my template file editor: Let you edit template files directly from backend like you can on WP
• a lot more

Btw.: Your website is lovely!

-- Nico

[jploch]

Hi Nico,

danke für deine Antwort. Die deutsche PW Seite habe ich schon gesehen, gute Arbeit!

Für einen Entwickler hast du ein sehr gutes grafisches Auge finde ich, und das mit 17

Ich werde in den nächsten Wochen meine erste kleine PW seite launchen und dabei hoffentlich ne menge lernen.

Vielleicht können wir in der Zukunft ja mal ein Projekt zusammen machen.

Beste Grüße

Jan

-----

Translation:

Hi Nico,

thx for your answer. I have seen the german PW site, good work!

For a developer you have a very good understanding of design and that with just 17 years.

In the next weeks I will launch my first PW site and hope to learn more.

Maybe we can work together sometimes.

Best Regards

Jan