Pete

But modules can restrict you to one way of doing things, which is not what it's all about. There are also already blog modules and form modules, and a dozen ways to build forms and galleries. I guess it's that fine line between whether we want it to be a system people can use out of the box without having to learn anything and whether we want them to have to learn something about building websites. It's also whether it's even a good idea to let people loose without them having to grasp how things work - you're going to get queries about how to do things either way, but when they're potentially pigeon-holed by a module (not saying that would happen, but it could) and want it to do something else than what it's designed to then they're stuck. There's merit in both approaches, but I think continuing to roll out good tutorials and docs is the best route - that's just my opinion though. The "added value" bits you mention are the very core of the system - they're why you would choose it in the first place over pre-built solutions and how a lot of people arrived here in the first place. The whole point of the system is it's a blank(ish) canvas and you can do what you like, with a little HTML and CSS knowledge - there are plenty of website builders out there for those that don't want this. I don't think we should try to be like other systems. If there are people looking to build a site but don't want to learn even the very basics of the system they're using then they're going to arrive at a point sooner or later with any system they use where they will have to learn or give up, so why not land them with that choice right at the start? Sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument - just airing my personal views same as you and I know there are plenty of people who have been here a while who share your views and mine, sometimes both There is very likely some way to have it both ways, but I just don't see that catering to people who are unwilling to learn the basics helps anyone, at least not in the long run where they will be asking questions about customisation that we could have helped with right from the start. If anything it is a recipe for a recurring headache.

I do understand the user-friendly request, but I'm just concerned about how it can be done without making it not be ProcessWire any more. It's hard to make a bunch of templates when you don't know that the user is definitely looking for a blog or example - any templates that make too many assumptions will come with too many fields people won't use, and if you just stick with the default fields from the default installation but offer templates around that (there will be several with the 2.5 release coming soon) then those same people are still going to be confused even if they can see different template options The other option that has been talked about before is having several different installation profiles aimed at the question "what do you want to build?" with options like blog, company site, photo gallery etc and have some nice tailored options that can be installed at the start to show off different options. I think this is the more viable route as it offers choice rather than just theming the default template, plus is able to perhaps better show off some of the options depending on what someone wants. The rest of your points are easier to do, which is great! For Enterprise, I think we're getting the kind of case studies we can point to for those clients - the one I absolutely love being this one: https://processwire.com/talk/topic/7494-case-study-the-triumph-of-national-geographic-traveller-india-in-processwire/ - big project, large team and high-profile client. And as a bonus they switched from another system after facing numerous hurdles which speaks volumes - that particular development team have experience with the tools they've used in the past but they still made that switch and left their familiar territory behind for the benefit of the project.

Hehe, you might find those karmic combinations come up more and more in future - there have been many occasions here where a feature or module is released just as several of us need it in projects In the early days I likened the experience of working with ProcessWire as being "how I would have built a CMS had I the time or skills to do so" because it seemed to solve all the problems I had as a matter of course whilst not getting in the say. It's remarkably intuitive once you get going with it and it's really a load off your mind, leaving you to build a site how you want. Having possibly the most active developer I've seen at the helm is a large part of that, as is his willingness to take on board suggestions (that sort of thing is often met with skepticism or resistance elsewhere whereas it opens up a valuable and rewarding dialogue here). Plus it makes working with a CMS fun again. That's a huge part of why the community is as good as it is

Thanks for sharing a really beautiful site with us! I like this project for so many reasons, but the main one is it is a perfect showcase of what you can do in ProcessWire with a little knowledge and time. 15 days to convert everything from Drupal to ProcessWire? Wow, that's quite something for this site. Did you have all the content already in Drupal so it was a case of moving everything over? Or was it more 15 days to get ProcessWire set up for all of the various content types and data entry came later? I know you can build things very fast in ProcessWire and with a dedicated team of people working on it it must be an even faster experience Again, a perfect example to anyone wondering what relatively-unknown system can do - certainly another site I will be pointing people to to allay any fears around whether ProcessWire is capable of delivering complex sites. Hope you don't mind, but I linked to the site a couple of times in your original post - once when you first mention the revamped site and also made the screenshot clickable to the site, just so folks don't miss it. EDIT: When you get to the 404 page, it says "NULL" in the top-left corner. I saw it due to a typo, so no broken links or anything like that

I'd noticed the field and used it, just not the bit where you can add multiple templates in order to be able to drop in different content editor "blocks" (I hate that term, but it fits here) in whatever order you like.

So behind the times @MadeMyDay - just submitted a pull request to fix some freaky things I was experiencing either due to a template delegation situation or some freaky admin code I've done but I think it could affect certain people in certain scenarios so best to be safe. And because I'm nice I made sure it was all still compatible with your instructions afterwards

I hadn't actually realised you could specify more than one template for a PageTable field! Did that get snuck in after one of the early versions or am I just blind in general? It actually makes an "article" system a lot easier to build where an editing user might want to dump in some text, then an image, then some more text exactly as you have, but with your module it's one step better as it's pretty much WYSIWIG. Inline edits would be nice as folks have said, but this is still really, really useful!

It doesn't have to be core - an optional module makes the most sense since it's not required by most. I think some minor changes could be required in the core to make it work, but possibly not all I know is that ryan has on occasion made changes to the core to allow for other bits of functionality but I don't expect this workflow would be a core addition. Either way, let's not fixate on it being core or not and keep the discussion more around requirements I'm short on time at present but I might break off all the workflow posts into a separate topic later today unless someone beats me to it (feel free mods).

I see it as being an addon module or modules (preferably as few as possible whilst being sensible about it of course) and yes, I think it's the sort of feature that could easily be a paid module, though I'd leave that decision to ryan.

Link 1 here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=processwire+logo+file

I had written a big post here about drafts/versioning etc a few days back but silly me was doing too many things, forgot about it and forgot to hit "Post" It went a little something like this: Drafts/versioning/workflows (let's just label all of those as workflows because they are all linked) is a feature that is usually required by larger sites/companies and is something that is actually worthy of the name "enterprise" that people have been using a lot recently. A system that I used 10+ years ago when working for my local Council had the following abilities (not saying we're behind the times by mentioning "10+ years ago", more that my memory won't be great when recalling the details ): The web team manager was able to edit certain fields (META data etc whilst the rest of the team was able to edit the content fields. This can already be accomplished in PW, but not sure how easy it is to use - ideal would be a tab when editing a template that has a matrix of all the fields and all the roles and checkboxes to determine who can edit/see which fields. Once web team user has finished editing, page goes to approval with team manager who can review the edits. These will quite often be changes to pages that exist already, so this is a draft copy of that page that has been worked on. There were also X past versions of a page (in PW this could perhaps be determined per-template again as some may need no drafts and others you might want a few) along with who edited them I think (10 years is a long time). Pages could also have a review period assigned to them. This would be a trivial module to build in ProcessWire, but the concept was that you would assign each page a review period of 6 months as well as the email address of the person best suited to review the content - this is NOT always a user account in the CMS. In the Council where I worked this person could be another department head and they would receive an email for each page on the relevant review date, with follow-up reminders. The ideal here would be for the web team leader and other suitable people to be able to log into the admin and see a list of which pages were up for review, who they were being reviewed by and they would remain in the list until either the content was updated or a box was ticked to add another X months to the review date. In theory there are multiple workflow steps that might be required - I think Concrete5 has the ultimate workflow solution here (I started the video at 40 seconds but not sure the forums will cope with that ): http://youtu.be/Z1fHz5jTnw4?t=40s but I'm not 100% sure a "version 1" would need to be that fancy. I can see how the interface might start to come together though as we already have things in the dev branch at present that deal with triggers and actions, I think something like that could be applied to per-template workflows. There isn't a huge audience asking for this, but there is a huge potential audience out there. The vast majority of medoum-large news/magazine sites could use this - having run a small one as a hobby it can become problematic to keep track of what's going on with just a handful of staff. Then there's just about every local government who are on the lookout for something powerful and cheap, but have to have the workflows in place for accountability (and sanity when dealing with lots of staff editing bits). And then there are large companies with lots of content to manage. Certainly I can see all of the above wanting to use ProCache too since systems with advanced workflows can often be of the slower variety. I don't want to sound melodramatic, but without a good, coherent approach to drafts/workflows/version control we are effectively shutting out a large audience. The problem is that it is easier for people reviewing a CMS to see what it's got, not find what they want and go elsewhere rather than saying "I'd use this CMS but it doesn't have feature X", so we will never know how many people might actually consider PW if it had workflows. (On a related note, can we set up the Site Search feature in Google Analytics for the forum and site search fields ryan - then we might get a better idea of what people are searching for but not necessarily requesting ).

I'm confused as to why you would want bots to be able to see your content if it's under maintenance but not guests? If you use my module, I would leave it so it blocks bots too otherwise Google could easily see a PHP error or something if you are changing things behind the scenes.

Similarly don't be drunk yourself at Las Ramblas at night or you could well get mugged. When I was last there the police just seem to sit at either end and whatever happens in the middle... happens. One guy in our group got mugged, someone tried to mug one of my brothers friends when he went a few years later - not nice. Other than that, beautiful city and lots to do, but I was on a stag do so all I remember is Sangria and Mojito's

Looking at your other posts you may already understand this better now, but basically the homepage template is including a file called head.inc (you'll find that in the same folder as the home template above), echoing the contents of the "body" field for the current $page, then incluting the foot.inc file which is also in the same folder as the home template. I know PHP can be a bit alien to begin with, but for the most part the above does exactly what is says on the tin

I don't know - their website just redirects to the Play store as you say. What's wrong with downloading it from there?

Hi dupalski I think the problem is that whichever system you use, the minute you want to change the layout a bit you are still looking at code of one sort or another. Whether you're editing a snippet that comes with a MODx module (I forget exactly how it works) or you're writing one of Martijn's simple examples above you will see some form of code at some point. The thing is to not be afraid of the fact that in MODx it's abstracted away behind {{curly braces}} or [!other things]] whilst ProcessWire throws real PHP your way - they're both equally as simple to break, but it's infinitely easier in ProcessWire to do what you want out of the box (with a little learning - there's a learning curve with both so why not learn some actual PHP rather than abstract code ). I would recommend downloading and installing ProcessWire, and then looking at some of the tutorials - this is probably the most concise example that gets you going quickly with a guides through templates, fields and pages and if you understand those basics by the end then you'll have begun to unlock some of the power of ProcessWire and hopefully be eager for more! Some of the docs can look a little scary, but honestly if you know HTML and CSS then that's half of the battle - the tutorials can help you with a lot of the rest and doing it in ProcessWire you're not restricted to what the modules output for you in terms of HTML - as you can see in Martijn's example above of outputting images from a page that's pretty simple and you can apply whatever HTML and CSS you like around it without worrying about modules not getting update by their authors or things like that (disclaimer: they're all pretty up to date here, but I'd wager that not all of Wordpress' 1,355 gallery plugins are up to date - just an extreme example from another system there ). Following on from that disclaimer in the paragraph above, that example actually highlights how the number of modules doesn't necessarily mean much either if there are lots of the same thing or, as Martijn says, they are things that can be done in so little code in ProcessWire that they're not worth writing a whole module for. Every plugin/module in any system actually adds some overhead, whether it's parsing CMS-specific tags in other systems or getting basic information - it all adds a little to the server load or page load times. That said, using plain HTML will always be faster than using any CMS so there is always a trade-off no matter what you do. I think I might need to take a breath now Anyway, my suggestion would be to follow a tutorial, have a play and ask on the forums if you still have questions after that.

Perfect. Spot on. Great. Good job old chap. All pretty similar

But this form has been reduced from all the nominations in the early stages Matthew where people were free to nominate whoever they liked. The list of 3 is from the most nominated in that category as I understand it, otherwise the list would be massive. There's possibly some merit in just having it as a single process - vote for whoever you like with no shortlist stage, but the form would be so long people wouldn't bother filling it out in my opinion.

I've got a friend who lives in New Zealand and he says he wasn't joking about IT in general being a bit behind the times there when he took his dual core PC over there a couple of years ago, so it's not really surprising that customers there aren't wanting cutting edge. Not sure if this is still the case - this was just his observation when he emigrated and took his old-ish PC with him that due to cost people are a bit slower than other countries upgrading to the latest and greatest all the time - I'm not sure and it might just have been a local thing to where he moved to. No insult intended there, that was just the impression I was given and it does sound way more relaxed and chilled out too - I'm envious whenever he posts photos on Facebook I agree with doing what clients want though. It's a pain, you might not like it, but if they really want it a certain way then unless it's going to take you longer in terms of time then you have to give in at some point and just go with it. I was very late to the responsive design party but with the likes of Foundation and, more recently, UIKit it's not difficult to design a responsive site any more (I never got on with Bootstrap for some reason, probably because every man and his dog was using it ). Heck, I've only recently started saving myself time using SASS - though on a basic website the time saved might be a few minutes, it can add up over a year or quicker on more complex projects. My experience with responsive design is that it was once hard for me to understand and now with so many good frameworks I don't need to understand it as much, plus you have an excellent foundation (no pun intended) to build from so you can actually build quicker than normal. It takes a little while to get used to, but those few hours will be time well spent. I'm now building responsive sites almost by accident - using either of the frameworks I linked to you can focus on the desktop version and chuck in a few extra classes to make it do different things at different screen sizes later, or do it as you go along with very little effort. Sorry - I went on a bit longer than intended there but yes, it's worth looking into. I wouldn't say at this stage there's much you could do (or want/need to do) but it's worth bearing in mind if they want to update/refresh further down the line.

Amazing - will test this weekend.

Did I dream this or is something like this now part of the core in the dev branch?

You are correct, as usual

Soma beat me to it (couldn't find the info in time ). Your code might look something like this: $products = $pages->find("template=product, (product_name=computer, product_category=electronics)");

Oh I'm just going to install that $6 forum plugin later today that allows for Google search since I can't find time to look into Sphinx search right now

It sounds like maybe filtering showcase entries by certain categories might help - I'm working with a design agency right now for a reasonably complicated site for a corporate client in the USA that would make an interesting case study when it's done. What I've found fascinating in this particular case is that the chap I'm working with saw Processwire, watched ryan's video I think and was sold on the concept without going much further than that. He also had little problem convincing the client to use it. I think that a lot of the work can be down to dev/design agencies and how we're marketing it ourselves in meetings to clients. It's making me think it's less likely that large organisations would start out by looking at a solution themselves until their dev has suggested something and then they might look into it in more detail. Either way though you do need something on the site to back it up. Being able to filter case studies based on criteria that might be appealing to larger customers would be a start, as would the idea of a developer directory. I know there are more devs than those who post on the forums so a directory along with which country they're in would be a relatively easy and reassuring indicator to a company performing some sort of due diligence to make sure that if one dev vanishes they've got alternatives.