ProcessWire - feedback from training session

[Peter Knight]

Gave my first client training yesterday on using ProcessWire. I've built approx 7 sites so far in PW but this was the first scenario where I was handing off to a client and training them in. It was interesting to see where the client had issues and where they had praise. 

Their site had previously been running on a different CMS so they were familiar with the general workings but also had a lot of expectations on how the CMS would work. 

Positives

Overall the feedback was extremely positive. Here's just a couple I recall

"This is so easy, I can see myself actually using this..."

"I really like this. Do you know, with CMS B, I was afraid to use it ...I had so many instructions for making pages and selecting fields that I was afraid I'd break it or do something wrong..."

"Really? I can just drop an image there and it uploads itself?" 

"I like how it's presented. I know exactly where to edit content and where it's found"

They also loved the simplicity of the Add New button when I had mapped it to creating various pages etc

Negatives

In truth there was no 'negative' feedback as such. A few misunderstandings about the UI as follows

1. There were some issues dragging images onto the image drop zone. It just wasn't clear where client should release the image. I think this area could be cleaned up a bit?

 

2. When browsing the tree, the client would sometimes repeatedly click a page title instead of the 'edit' link to the right of the page title.

 

3. When they clicked 'View' or the Home icon on the top menu (Reno Theme) the site would load in the same browser window and sometimes they would loose changes. Personally, I've always thought these 'View' links should open a new tab and have found them annoying.

 

4. Found the new image crop UI confusing. I've gotten used to it but i'm not new to image management. Possibly the only time training came to a dead stop and we had to rewind a bit.

That's it really. Will write a proper blog post about this soon with more detail. 

[Macrura]

@Peter - there are 2 drop ins for admin custom files that force the view links to open in new windows (one from the edit and one from the page tree).. pretty much essential for my clients; also you can install the form save reminder (http://modules.processwire.com/modules/form-save-reminder/)

[owzim]

3. When they clicked 'View' or the Home icon on the top menu (Reno Theme) the site would load in the same browser window and sometimes they would loose changes. Personally, I've always thought these 'View' links should open a new tab and have found them annoying.

+1

[Peter Knight]

@Peter - there are 2 drop ins for admin custom files that force the view links to open in new windows (one from the edit and one from the page tree).. pretty much essential for my clients; also you can install the form save reminder (http://modules.processwire.com/modules/form-save-reminder/)

Great. Too many good modules floating around

[Jan Romero]

2. When browsing the tree, the client would sometimes repeatedly click a page title instead of the 'edit' link to the right of the page title.

This one has always annoyed me too. I still find myself middle-clicking page titles in page tree and page list, trying to open multiple edit tabs. Then when I’m done they’re all just page trees…

[LostKobrakai]

There's also this for showing the pagetreelinks on hover in addition to the always visible ones. They are more present this way and I'd think users will be less tempted to click the title of the page. It's one of my standard admincustomfiles files.

.content .PageList .PageListItem:hover .PageListActions {
  display: inline;
  -webkit-transition-delay: .25s;
  transition-delay: .25s; 
}

@Jan Romero

You're not the only one. I do this, too, while I doubt my clients are using such bulk editing skills

[Peter Knight]

What's interesting here is these are all minor / low-level friction points which if fixed could make the experience that much better.

As developers we get past them but to clients who are less 'married' to the CMS they're probably bigger annoyances.

If I hadn't directed this training session, I'd still think these were annoying but assume because no one else piped up about them, that I should live with them.

[diogo]

I also think that _blank should be default. I think this point is well made here https://css-tricks.com/use-target_blank/

A Good Reason: The user is working on something on the page, that might be lost if the current page changed.

[adrian]

I have actually started using this version so that the links only show on hover and are hidden from the parent when a branch is open:

.content .PageList .PageListItem:hover .PageListActions{display:inline;-webkit-transition-delay:.25s;transition-delay:.25s}
.content .PageList .PageListItemOpen .PageListActions{display:none !important;}
.content .PageList .PageListItemOpen:hover .PageListActions{display:inline !important;-webkit-transition-delay:.25s;transition-delay:.25s}

In addition to quicker access and less confusion, it is also a huge performance increase on slow internet connections (I just spent a few months with horrible internet) because you don't need the ajax call to retrieve the child pages just to be able to edit the page, or add a new child.

[Pierre-Luc]

Do you also use the field descriptions extensively? My clients LOVE this, it makes it very clear what is used where and how.

[mr-fan]

.... because no one else piped up about them, that I should live with them.

This is what is the most and big point of this awesome community here.

There is no huff and saying - we have the best CMS so your problems are no problems - so live with them...

Here is instant writing and thinking - we have the best CMS so there must be one/more ways to get this problems away...

Thank you Peter for this threat - i discovered AdminCustomFiles while reading your write-up.

Best regards mr-fan

[Peter Knight]

Here's a timely quote from Gartner research which broadly relates to this topic ...

Those receiving service of some sort do not care about the details of how the service is created, managed and get delivered, only that they get something that is meaningful to them.

[owzim]

Funny how all problems listed here annoyed me and others too, we get used to them and don't complain. That might even be dangerous, so client's feedback is key.

[ESRCH]

3. When they clicked 'View' or the Home icon on the top menu (Reno Theme) the site would load in the same browser window and sometimes they would loose changes. Personally, I've always thought these 'View' links should open a new tab and have found them annoying.

I also completely agree with this.

As a workaround, I put this hook in a general "utilities" module:

$this->addHookAfter('ProcessPageEdit::buildFormView', function($event) {
	$process = $event->object;

	$tabId = "ProcessPageEditView";
	$viewLink = $process->getTabs()[$tabId];
	$viewLink = substr_replace($viewLink, " target='_blank'", 2, 0);

	$process->removeTab($tabId);
	$process->addTab($tabId, $viewLink);
});

But it would be much better if this was the default behavior...

[cstevensjr]

This is a nice and much needed thread, however it would be great if each idea, complaint, feature or UI request referenced a Github Issue or another thread within the forum.   To me, that would ensure that these important concerns were/are being addressed.  

[adrian]

Nice one ESRCH, but that only affects the View tab on editing a page - I also like to change the view links on the page tree. Yours does cover the only critical issue as that is when it is possible to lose changes to a page (unless you have Soma's Form Save Reminder installed). I just posted this over at: https://processwire.com/talk/topic/7588-admin-custom-files/?p=89331 because it uses Martijn's Admin Custom Files. This version also changes the view links on the page tree.
 
ProcessPageList.js

$(document).ajaxComplete(function(){    
    $('li.PageListActionView a').each(function(){
        if($(this).attr('target') == undefined){
            $(this).attr('target','_blank');
        }
    });
});

ProcessPageEdit.js 

$( document ).ready(function() {
    if($('#_ProcessPageEditView').attr('target') == undefined){
        $('#_ProcessPageEditView').attr('target','_blank');
    }
});

Maybe someone else will also like this approach.

[Robin S]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I just thought I'd add that there is a config option for opening "View" links in a new window from Page Edit:

viewNew = 1

I don't think there is a config option for the view links in the page list though - would be great if there was.