Joss Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I have just been asked by a radio celeb to design them a site to accompany their forthcoming autobiography (which is destined to be very controversial and upset a lot of people) (Note - I have been asked not because I am the first stop for celebs, which I aint, but we used to work together many many years ago as juniors in the business!) So, the site will need to be a) quite flashy, b) simple to understand (cough) and c) probably robust. I also might have to move it in a hurry if it is very popular (cant tell with celebs - some will get thousands of hits, many will get five, on a good day) However, that is not the issue, I could make it with Bootstrap 3 or I could make it with Foundation 5 ... but which? If I was brave i would try Edge Reflow, but I haven't even opened that yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Walker Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hi Joss, Why not design it from scratch? I understand that BS and Foundation are fast starting points but don't they just complicate things by having to sift through all their code to work out what does what? Not to mentioning loading code you never use. BTW on your Stony site there's a typo in the footer: Site Design ©2012 Stony Webistes 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Ta! I am about to rebuild that site actually. I haven't had any speed issues with either of the frameworks and I tend to use quite a few of their components. Having said that, I might also look at some of the grid only responsive frameworks that are around like Pure as this site might use a few independent plugins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanyaissues Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 @Joss Take a look at Semantic UI and UIKit 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Thanks Sanyaissues - that is new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrura Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 @Joss, i have a similar question... need to start a new project and want to use a framework; Strongly considering foundation; have used Skeleton and Bootstrap a lot; I played around with uikit at bit but haven't formed a strong opinion yet, but it does look nice, and that's the people from yootheme whom you might be familiar with from their template clubs for joomla and wordpress; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 I am more familiar with Bootstrap than Foundation - but I did enjoy playing with the SASS on foundation. It does have some advantages. If you have a complicated menu structure, Foundation's menu solution is nicer than Bootstrap, and you can play around with the media breaks in a different way (they calculate slightly differently) However, Bootstrap feels a little less clunky. To be honest, I think with both of these you need to decide what you are actually going to do and then only build the bits your really, really need. If that means you are only using the grid system, then maybe they are not the best. But if you like all their components and want to use those, then they start coming into their own. To be honest, good designers have built great sites with most of the solutions out there, so you can probably be too picky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanium Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hi Joss, Why not design it from scratch? I understand that BS and Foundation are fast starting points but don't they just complicate things by having to sift through all their code to work out what does what? Not to mentioning loading code you never use. The last point isn't necessarily true. LESS/SASS is very easy to learn and can be used to customize Bootstrap or Foundation in every detail. No need to re-invent the wheel again. Bootstrap and Foundation have a big community, which helps dealing in case of problems. Personally I would go with Bootstrap 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hey, I still like Corel Webmaster Suite! (Think I have cracked that joke before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onjegolders Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hiya Joss, I haven't checked out Foundation 5 yet but I have a large preference for Foundation over Bootstrap simply because their grid is far better. I'm presuming this is the main reason you have for using them. As others say, don't rule out building from scratch or using a lighter grid framework but of the two you mention, it's Foundation for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiagoroldao Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 onjegolders: Bootstrap 3 levels the playing field on the grid thing - before I'd totally have to agree (even using bootstrap over Foundation). On these new versions, they are pretty much on par with one another - though I find Bootstrap (and specially Bootstrap 3) to be friendlier with 3rd party scripts and the like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 From someone who hasn't really used either yet but is contemplating it (need to see what all the fuss is about), this is a decent article: https://medium.com/frontend-and-beyond/8b3812c7007c 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beluga Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 More comparisons: http://responsive.vermilion.com/compare.php?framework=current http://usablica.github.io/front-end-frameworks/compare.html http://archetyped.com/know/redesigning-archetyped-comparing-css-frameworks/ The article linked by adrian has good points. When you design mobile-first, you avoid potentially having to retrofit your responsive design (painful). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Of course, there is the point that BS 3 works with IE8 (more or less) where as Foundation 5 doesn't Interesting going through your lists, Beluga ... I like the brave ones that are compatible with IE5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beluga Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Of course, there is the point that BS 3 works with IE8 (more or less) where as Foundation 5 doesn't Interesting going through your lists, Beluga ... I like the brave ones that are compatible with IE5 Simple Solution for IE8 and Foundation 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiagoroldao Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 From someone who hasn't really used either yet but is contemplating it (need to see what all the fuss is about), this is a decent article: https://medium.com/frontend-and-beyond/8b3812c7007c It seems a bit biased towards Foundation, this one... It's not that the author doesn't try to be objective, but the comparison seems at times to be between BS2 (and not BS3) and Foundation... For instance - BS3 is mobile-first. And it isn't just an add-on they glued to the 3rd installment, it is the main reason for v3 (and for how long it took). Also, the article implies that while BS3 has forceful fixed-width columns, Foundation doesn't, when it is the other way around - while BS3 gives you the choice between fluid and fixed rows (being that both respond to the same breaking points), with Foundation there is no fixed-width row option. It is relatively easily implementable but still.. --EDIT-- Only after writing this did I notice "Updated to Foundation 5 and Bootstrap 3" - Being that this was probably a comparison between older versions (and being that BS3 was a complete overhaul), it explains the biases I noticed... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applab Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Having used Bootstrap 2 and Foundation 4 I have a definite preference for Foundation, but that might just be my pathological avoidance of "the popular option". Contrary to your experience Joss, I found Bootstrap to be the *more* clunky of the two. If all you need is a mobile-friendly responsive grid then take a look at http://arnaudleray.github.io/pocketgrid/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Ah, that is because I am comparing Bootstrap 3 and Foundation 5 - both of which are significantly different from their predecessors (well, particularly Bootstrap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrura Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 this is also interesting: https://www.yootheme.com/component/blog/2013/08/13/how-big-is-uikit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks to Apeisa I'm currently doing some work in UIKit and loving it. They all come with a certain amount of baggage, but I'm finding that compared to Foundation UIKit is a bit more straightforward and, well, if I had the time and expertise it's probably how I would have built a framework. Plus it looks nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 One of the nice things about using SASS with Foundation is that I can simply not include what I am not using. So my foundation.css file is half the size of normal on one site and the JS only loads specific components on the pages that are actually using them. And that is without me minimizing them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renobird Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Joss, Both are good places to start if you need the full framework. My preference is Bourbon + Neat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Jo, try Scout for Sass or Prepros which does everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geniestreiche Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I went with both, bootstrap and foundation, in the past. i prefer foundation because i think its more a starting point with a very basic style. bootstrap is more production ready but in the last months, dozens of sites came out with bootstrap. Sometimes i think, please, i will no longer see that bootstrap style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yes, I know what you mean, though my music site is Bootstrap 2 and it is not too obvious that it is Bootstrap. I think it really depends what you are doing. I am currently redoing my web-design site and it will use a fair bit of Adobe Edge Animate on the front page. Now, where that will take me is anyone's guess at the moment, but it may well mean that I need nothing more than a simple responsive framework because the rest has been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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