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Yes. I've worked for agencies and with them. I've approached an agency who was full WordPress and in conversation explained the features and benefits of PW. The conversation went well but they declined to work with me. When I talked about stability and long term security, they simply said that the problems and bad parts of WordPress were part of their business model. They were quite satisfied selling a substandard product that they can count on breaking simply because they can charge their customers to fix it. There are a lot of reasons behind the decisions at agencies. I'm not discounting your thoughts on the website, many good points, and I know that you're not alone in those sentiments. I think that it's really good that devs who regularly use PW and care about it share those thoughts. It's something that makes this community unique 👍 I doubt there's not going to be a redesign. Maybe some Iterative feedback would be constructive if Ryan and the designers are open to it. It's easier to help incrementally improve support of the work that needs to be done. Not everyone will be satisfied 🤷‍♂️ An open and honest conversation in good faith is something to be encouraged. I personally always think content first. Maybe a conversation about what is said, how it's said, and how impactful it is as stated on the site can help. I can't find it for the life of me but I know that Ryan put a out a question of "what should be on the website?" in a post. There were a lot of great suggestions, and that's a lot of work. Maybe there can be some community contributions. Design follows content- so if there's something to say, it can help be the basis or blueprint for suggestions and improvements to the design. Want a section with stats? Perhaps share some research and stats you believe should be showcased and the text that supports it. Boxes with numbers in a wireframe don't justify the change, content does. All that said, my perspective is one that I think is worth considering: Operate on the assumption that a design change won't be a solution to client challenges. That's pretty much it. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant. I'll mention why in my last bit below. I would go so far as to say this applies to any equation, e.g. "I'm having client challenges with x because of y". Here are some specifics of my approach. Is it really because of the website? The website isn't that old. Is this a temporary dip in business? Has someone communicated, either directly or indirectly, that the website may have affected their decision? Unless you can confidently point to an example then it's just vibes and speculation. This is a question is less about an answer and more for considering all angles. Refresh the approach. Are there ways to reduce the impact of force "X" that may cause conflict? Is there something that can be discussed ahead of time, or after a conversation has already taken place? For the sake of example, let's use the website as the challenge. Here's how I would approach it in a follow up conversation where ProcessWire had already been discussed, there is some hesitancy, and my concern is that the website didn't help convince them in my favor. "So we had discussed using ProcessWire as the CMS for this project. I don't know if you've looked into it or visited the website, personally, I think it's a little more tailored for developers and programmers. There are a few other things I wanted to go over and cover any thoughts or questions you had since the last time we met" (or spoke, whatever) Strategy: I brought up the CMS, not always possible, but if I'm convinced that the CMS is holding things back then it's time to engage. Regardless of who brings it up, I take the forward position rather than defend. I stated outright a shortcoming that I think X has If I suspect X then I bring up X if/when possible. This does one of two things: confirms that it wasn't the culprit, or deflects an opinion they may/may not have based on something I perceived is a negative. Opened it up for them to share their thoughts after removing barriers I know this isn't applicable to everyone, or can be implemented exactly- but the concepts are not limited to this example. I also know that we are an international community where social norms, customs, and language may need an approach more appropriate for you. Reframing the conversation with an honest and confident approach is always a good way to connect. I like to own the perceived weaknesses in a conversation. Build an example website. Here's the one that I think may have the biggest effect. ProcessWire doesn't have an example site where you can log in and explore. We are web designers and developers! If you don't like a website, build another one 😎 If the ProcessWire website isn't having the impact you need, it's possible to help take control of that variable. Again, we're assuming that a design change to the ProcessWire website won't be a solution to client challenges. If you have a concept that you believe will speak to the features and strengths that matter to your clients the most, then there's no better way to speak to them than this. You know your clients and the potential clients you are working to gain better than anyone. Full stop. If I remember correctly, @bernhard had/has an example PW site that you could log into, make changes, save, delete, whatever, and every X amount of time or PW event all the changes are reverted. If that's true perhaps he can share that and some tips based on his extensive knowledge and experience; Challenge: Build as a community An example site with real world features, a great design, and a focus on usability is a great tool to showcase software. Many CMS sites have them. Regardless if you love the new PW site or not, there is no argument that an example site would be far more effective at illustrating the power and capabilities of PW as it relates to clients, either end users or agencies. This would be an opportunity for the community to build something that pushes things forward. I don't want to speak for Ryan, but perhaps this contribution would get a link on the site. If fit gets official support, perhaps a subdomain. I don't want to say "if you think it's that easy then try doing it yourself", but this would indeed bring in the challenges of group collaboration, planning, and delegation. That said, it's a blank slate without constraints. Take the collaborative effort that would be directed at improving the ProcessWire website, or the work that would be required to redesign it, and use it to make an experience that stands on its own. Ryan and the designers of the new site are working on the core and continuing to refine the new admin. I think expectations have to be realistic here. The priority is the functionality and quality of the ProcessWire experience. I wouldn't assume there's time to stop work on those and work on the PW site. There's nothing stopping the community from taking on this challenge and work together or working on our individual strategies. I think your original post @MrSnoozles is one that contains the topic of two threads. Website design feedback, and navigating client challenges possibly due to the website redesign. I focused on the latter because it's widely applicable and something that you, me, and everyone else can work on changing now. While that's happening, in the meantime contributing to a design conversation about the website if valuable but is at the very least a medium to long range timeline.

Some of us (including me) are lucky enough to have clients who do not care about the look of processwire.com and trust us that ProcessWire is the best. Not all of us are that lucky. So for those who are not so lucky, it matters a lot what a potential future client perceives when visiting processwire.com.

💯! I couidn't have said it any better - and said similar things in the past. At least 95% of my clients don't care about what is used to achieve their goals. They need tools that work, are easy to use, have a low barrier to onboard new editors to maintain content or data. Quite a lot of times, yes. I migrated a bunch of Wordpress, Typo3, Joomla projects over to ProcessWire and everyone was happy with the result. The moment you have to deal with lots or tons of data ProcessWire beats everything. This already starts with simple things like events (parties, concerts, those kind of events) and you take care of archiving old events. 🤯 Try this with WordPress. Try to automate things. It's super easy in ProcessWire. Remove daily maintenance tasks from your clients schedule - use this as a selling point - and they will understand. Depending on how big the project/budget was I either [a] showed them the most critical details about ProcessWire, like Security, API, Backend, Templates, Multilanguage, Access Rights/Roles. Everything is in the core, no additional modules/plugins needed. [b] built a MVP of the project, showcased automation, user management, access rights/roles, and let them (or those that would have to do so in the future) add/edit/delete content and data. BUT... When my only part in a project is implementing the design, build out templates, components, blocks - everything frontend - I don't care what they use later on as CMS. [Side note] Don't get me wrong about the overall topic. I think the new design/website could profit from some tweaks and iterations. I'd love to see more content and examples towards developers. Not only the basic API things, but how easy it is to work with it. Even when you are totally new to it.

I really liked your post in general, but can't agree with this. It is true for end clients that just want something that works and don't care about how it's done. But have you ever worked with other agencies? Can you imagine working for the first time with another agency and you're telling them you want to do the project with ProcessWire? They know a thing or two about technologies as well and also know a variety of CMS from other projects. They usually have never heard of ProcessWire so they're inevitably going to inform themselves about what they're getting into and what they're offering to their client (since we're just the contractor implementing the design). I feel like we've had a harder time convincing those to trust us and use ProcessWire since the new website launched.

Yep, take a look at this post: https://processwire.com/talk/topic/8387-page-protector/#findComment-81950

@virtualgadjo - thanks for reporting. I've fixed in the latest version. I also added the PW namespace as I will be doing with all my modules are new versions are released.

Hi @adrian playing a little with the module css for a friend i was wondering why i had an extra space i couldn't get rid of between the inputs and the button, found out 🙂 in your module file i saw <p> <input type='text' name='username' placeholder='".($this->data['usernamePlaceholder'.$lang] ? $this->data['usernamePlaceholder'.$lang] : $this->data['usernamePlaceholder'])."'> <input type='password' name='pass' placeholder='".($this->data['passwordPlaceholder'.$lang] ? $this->data['passwordPlaceholder'.$lang] : $this->data['passwordPlaceholder'])."'> <p> <p> <button type='submit' name='login'>".($this->data['loginButtonText'.$lang] ? $this->data['loginButtonText'.$lang] : $this->data['loginButtonText'])."</button> </p>"; which generates an extra p, i changed it into <p> <input type='text' name='username' placeholder='".($this->data['usernamePlaceholder'.$lang] ? $this->data['usernamePlaceholder'.$lang] : $this->data['usernamePlaceholder'])."'> <input type='password' name='pass' placeholder='".($this->data['passwordPlaceholder'.$lang] ? $this->data['passwordPlaceholder'.$lang] : $this->data['passwordPlaceholder'])."'> </p> <p> <button type='submit' name='login'>".($this->data['loginButtonText'.$lang] ? $this->data['loginButtonText'.$lang] : $this->data['loginButtonText'])."</button> </p>"; no more extra p, maybe it was intentional, but just in case 🙂 and of course thanks again for all your modules 🙂 have a nice day

Free version of Microsoft FrontPage Express on Windows 98 made me think I didn't have to learn any more fancy HTML until I found out that was all a lie 🤣

I built "my" first website in `96 with Adobe PageMill, fighting with tables to craft the basic layout it had. It was for a bank, a handful of static pages. I had no prior experience with HTML... :P

I don't want to be too blunt and I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never referred a client to a software or service website as part of the education process. It doesn't do anything for them. You are the expert. The person making the pitch should be able to fully explain the technology stack to the extent that the conversation requires it in language they can understand because we are the interpreters. Clients trust me because I am the expert and the top 3 things they care about are these, in this order: How much is this going to cost me? Why don't we use xxx? (or, our current site is xxx I'm not sure we want to switch) When is it going to be done? Sending a client to any site for tools or software is like saying "here, do your own research". The ProcessWire site, like any other development tools/software sites, isn't there to woo clients. Most clients don't care enough to take time and truly understand it because that's not their job. If a curious client is in a position to go to websites like ProcessWire, several steps have been skipped in the client discovery/planning process IMHO. I'd even go so far as to say that if a site has "Docs" or "Documentation" in the primary nav, it's not for clients and they shouldn't be there. I hope this isn't a too hot a take... I would say that improvements could be made iteratively with more use of color for contrast, emphasis, and indicating priority. I think it's a flexible design that can evolve in whatever capacity that may be needed. This has the ability to highlight some impressive facts and figures. No notes on the content, some elements could be integrated into the current design. Even then, facts and figures are for devs. I used the word "scalability" with a manager once and they stopped the conversation to ask "wait, what does that mean?" and still didn't care when I explained. A a CMS or framework site is never going to lead to clients translating what's on the page to time or money. In all likelihood, the conversation you are having with a client at 10:00 just followed a call with their product distributor at 8:00am, their accountant at 9:00, and at 11:00 they're meeting with other members in management. Personally, I would no sooner send someone to processwire.com than I would laravel.com. You are the time and money. I agree with this. I will go out on a limb and say the number of end customers who went to the Drupal site and left thinking they need a Drupal site isn't zero, but it's probably close. If someone is hiring a Drupal developer then they're in a role where it's part of their job to understand the tech stack even if they aren't a dev. Visiting wordpress.com, it doesn't target the end user but name recognition still draws business which overcomes the website entirely. This is fair. It doesn't take a monitor that computer professionals use to get this experience. All you need is a consumer iMac. I think iteration can address concerns. I don't want to belabor the point, but to be fair, did you ever send a client to the QuarkXpress website... Just a little joke ☺️ Cheers from a fellow old school developer who built their first website in 1997 and tinkered with QuarkXpress 🍻

hi again 🙂 @monollonom is right the solution is to use pages, you can do this with the page reference fielfd and get this kind of thing quite easily sorry most things are in french its just in a demo website i use to help french guys with pw 🙂 you can see i hav a spécial field named resume and a list of radio button coming from a page reference field allowing hidden pages, the parent page is like this as you can read in the blog page, you can use any kind of type for those page reference fields, actually it works a lot like the way i use them for blog categories and/ot tags have a nice day

I just tried on a test setup to install the FieldtypeOptions module and add it as an image’s custom field but it is not displayed when editing an image, nor is it available to toggle on in the FieldtypeFile’s module settings: And it's actually normal behavior as this Fieldtype is basically blacklisted as a FieldtypeFile’s custom field. @tires your best bet is to use a Page field instead and have your options stored as pages somewhere:

Some minor tweaks in the PHP & JS and this is working as expected. <?php foreach ($page->images as $image) { $thumb = $image->height(180); echo "<button class='trigger' popovertarget='mypopover' popovertargetaction='show' data-full='{$image->url}'> <img src='{$thumb->url}' alt='{$image->description}' /> </button>"; } ?> <div id='mypopover' popover> <img src='' alt='' /> <button class='close_pop' popovertarget='mypopover' popovertargetaction='hide'>&times;</button> </div> <script> window.addEventListener("load", initGallery); function initGallery() { const triggers = document.querySelectorAll(".trigger"); let popImg = document.querySelector("#mypopover img"); triggers.forEach((trigger) => { trigger.addEventListener("click", () => { let popImgUrl = trigger.dataset.full; popImg.src = popImgUrl; let triggerImg = trigger.querySelector("img"); popImg.alt = triggerImg ? triggerImg.alt : ""; }); }); } </script>

Hi again 🙂 actually, all those fields are not available in an image field by default but become so when you associate a specific template to the given image field say for example you have an image field named myfooimg if you create a template named field-myfooimg all the fields you use in this template will be availabe for you image datas, text, list of radio/checkboxes and so on... have a nice day

@virtualgadjo Thank you very much for your reply. The “select” fields you mentioned do not appear in my image field when I add them as custom fields. Apparently, not all fields can be used.

No to mention other issues like the following. On my 2560x1440 monitor, while scrolling, I get views like: I guess I do not have to explain why this is far from ideal. Just a big bulge blob with a subscription form in it and that’s it? To whom does it look professional?

I don't disagree with that. Design is very subjective. While I don't understand why the headline is so massive (on a 4K screen), why texts are not aligned (see screenshot), and I don't like the boxes with the shadows and the box that has the "ProcessWire weekly" signup, I still understand that it's professionally made. The main point is that the content is IMO written more towards developers and less towards companies that have to choose a CMS for their next project. I made a quick AI mockup of how I think it could be improved, highlighting the value for the business and developers, that with PW everything takes less time. And time is money.

But there is one thing we can all agree on, and that is the new design is quite controversial. And as far as I can tell, one either likes it a lot or does not like it a lot. And I don't think that such a controversial look is good in general. As for being "contemporary"? I started my designer career in 1997 and back then everyone used QuarkXpress, Aldus Freehand, and Color Studio (later Photoshop 2.5+). Because Macs were not too powerful, most designs were put together in QuarkXpress only. Why am I bringing this up? Because the current processwire.com design does look like "QuarkXpress only designs" from about 1995-2002. For this reason, to me, this is vintage.

Hi when it comes to a "select" just install the select options module which is in pw by default and then when adding a new field you'll be able to choose when it comes to images, having a close look at the full article from which the image you show comes https://processwire.com/blog/posts/pw-3.0.142/ you'll see that it relies on a template you create witjh a given naming convention --- quote--- Rather than trying to come up with some new way of defining custom fields, you define the custom fields for your file/image field with a Template. Simply create a template having the name "field-[name]" (replacing "[name]" with the name of your file/image field), add fields to it, save, and that's it. It's okay to add fields that might duplicate those already on your regular page template, as the fields for files/images are properties of each file/image rather than properties of any page. ------- not only will you be able to use radio button but nearly any kind of fields you would like to associate to the image hope it helps a little 🙂 have a nice day

How can I use a radio button with multiple options (as shown below in the image under “license”) in an image field? Is this also possible with a select field? Which fields can I use?

I disagree. As a designer and developer, I think the new design is much more professional, contemporary, and appropriate. Compare it to the Dupal or WordPress website. Do you think they are better positioned? What information do you think is missing for customers?

I burnt some credits on Seedream v4. (BTW, Our grandchildren will surely ask us: Grandma, Grandpa, is it true that your image generators were so stupid back in your day?)

Recommended read: https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2025/10/the-grayscale-problem/ Quote: "Colour seems an appropriate place to start. When given the choice, try something audacious rather than safe. The worst that can happen is that it doesn’t work. It’s not like the sunk cost of painting a room; if you don’t like the palette, you simply change the hex codes. The same is true of fonts, icons, and other building blocks of the web."

[Removed post content.] Edit: after removing the post content, I found a solution (for those who might have noticed my last post upgrade(s)). But I didn't save the post, so... Please remove this post :).

Thank you Jurgen. By comparing your template with my code I see what I did now. I copied a template you created on 15.02.2023 but somehow I'd deleted the line '<p>[[TITLE]]</p><ul> from $body. Dur! Thanks again.