From TextPattern to ProcessWire...

[diogo]

I'm also using velocity in my site. Very smooth indeed! Consider also having the menu inside the the red bar, like this it would just come down with it and might be more natural. It's a detail, but because it's the strongest element in the site, I think it's worth it to get it right.

[douglas81]

Yeah, I would do that (text within the menu and sliding down with it), but I sort of complicated things for myself by deciding early on that the "MIRA OPALINSKA" text would not simply be part of the menu, but, as you'll notice, stays in the same place and just changes color. The CSS and JS got a bit convoluted and, to be honest, I should just start again with it, clean slate. You're right, it's worth paying a bit more attention to, and I will! But man, sometimes you just got to publish the site even before it's absolutely perfect, right! Ha ha.

[renobird]

Hi douglas81,

As a former TXP user (nearly 5 years) It's always nice to see folks making the transition to ProcessWire. Very nice site. I agree with some of diogo's suggestions about the menu — but in the end it's a pretty small site, so I think people will find their way even if you keep it as-is.

You mentioned being more of a designer than coder. I would have described myself the same way when I first started using ProcessWire. I suspect that will change the longer you are here.

Anyhow, congrats on the site — and welcome.

[douglas81]

@renobird

Thanks!

Yeah, I was in touch with you a few months ago when I was thinking of making the switch from TXP, and now here I am!

I hope I don't become "more of a coder than a designer", but I'll be happy if the balance evens out a bit.

I saw (for the three second I had PW2.5 installed) that you have an admin theme included as default. Look forward to seeing how that looks as it was your blog post on a new TXP admin which brought me over here in the first place.

[renobird]

Hey! I remember that now. Glad you made it.

I haven't installed a new copy of 2.5 since AdminThemeReno was added to the core, but I believe it's a theme choice under Modules > Core > Admin. 

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

[Nico Knoll]

Looks great

[onjegolders]

Great looking site, I agree with Diogo though about having the navigation hidden on inner pages can be a bit annoying. I suppose if it appeared on hover rather than click it may be a nice compromise. Really nice work though.

And welcome to the community

[douglas81]

Great looking site, I agree with Diogo though about having the navigation hidden on inner pages can be a bit annoying. I suppose if it appeared on hover rather than click it may be a nice compromise. Really nice work though.

And welcome to the community

Thanks!

It's funny, I didn't expect such a negative reaction from people to the menu. I totally hear what you're all saying, but it's sort of surprised me. It's interesting, because I wonder if it's a "developer" type reaction. I mean, would the reaction would be the same if you were just going onto the site as a normal person, browsing the site in a normal fashion. I think when you're in "developer mode" checking out a site, if you're anything like me, you're sort of jumping back and forward from page to page, seeing how things work, checking stuff out, using the menu probably way more than you normally would. Do you know what I mean?

I think the average site visit is *click* to where I want to go, then read on that page for a while. *click* to another page. Read etc. Whereas, I'm almost certain all of you guys didn't bother to check any text and just clicked around to see how things look. I know that's what I do when I'm checking out a site design. The text might as well be Lorem Ipsum and I'd never even notice, ha ha!

@onjegolders | BTW, just checked out Milktop... very slick... I like it! (although, I didn't read any text )

[apeisa]

Great site and I actually liked the nav.

[Pete]

I liked the nav too.

If you ask a room full of people what they think there will always be a difference of opinion.

You don't have to change things people have suggested of course but you may find you get more suggestions here than other places

[Peter Knight]

Love the navigation. The site is relatively small so it works. It there were lots of sub pages you'd probably handle it differently.

[onjegolders]

Thanks!

It's funny, I didn't expect such a negative reaction from people to the menu. I totally hear what you're all saying, but it's sort of surprised me. It's interesting, because I wonder if it's a "developer" type reaction. I mean, would the reaction would be the same if you were just going onto the site as a normal person, browsing the site in a normal fashion. I think when you're in "developer mode" checking out a site, if you're anything like me, you're sort of jumping back and forward from page to page, seeing how things work, checking stuff out, using the menu probably way more than you normally would. Do you know what I mean?

I think the average site visit is *click* to where I want to go, then read on that page for a while. *click* to another page. Read etc. Whereas, I'm almost certain all of you guys didn't bother to check any text and just clicked around to see how things look. I know that's what I do when I'm checking out a site design. The text might as well be Lorem Ipsum and I'd never even notice, ha ha!

@onjegolders | BTW, just checked out Milktop... very slick... I like it! (although, I didn't read any text )

Fair point. I think it's a common people and like Pete says you don't have to please everyone! I certainly don't dislike it, it's just a conscious decision as a designer that you're putting an extra click between page changes. Sometimes it's the right choice too.

[onjegolders]

Thanks!

It's funny, I didn't expect such a negative reaction from people to the menu. I totally hear what you're all saying, but it's sort of surprised me. It's interesting, because I wonder if it's a "developer" type reaction. I mean, would the reaction would be the same if you were just going onto the site as a normal person, browsing the site in a normal fashion. I think when you're in "developer mode" checking out a site, if you're anything like me, you're sort of jumping back and forward from page to page, seeing how things work, checking stuff out, using the menu probably way more than you normally would. Do you know what I mean?

I think the average site visit is *click* to where I want to go, then read on that page for a while. *click* to another page. Read etc. Whereas, I'm almost certain all of you guys didn't bother to check any text and just clicked around to see how things look. I know that's what I do when I'm checking out a site design. The text might as well be Lorem Ipsum and I'd never even notice, ha ha!

@onjegolders | BTW, just checked out Milktop... very slick... I like it! (although, I didn't read any text )

Thanks for the compliment Douglas (although it is in the process of being updated)

[pwired]

It's funny, I didn't expect such a negative reaction from people to the menu. I totally hear what you're all saying, but it's sort of surprised me. It's interesting, because I wonder if it's a "developer" type reaction - - - - -

I call it constructive criticism with the goal to make things better - many times giving rise to things as

you mention: negative reaction, a surprise, is it a "developers" type reaction, etc, etc, the list goes on.

I almost decided to stop with it, but seeing you talk about it so openly made me change my mind.

[douglas81]

I'm totally up for a conversation about sliding navigation and if I'm coming across an defensive, that's not my intent. It's genuinely interesting to hear other people's views, and I was genuinely surprised to hear a few people mention uncertainty about the hidden nav.

From my own view, I'm 80% sure it's still the right decision and keeps any single page super-minimal and focused on content. Take the About page, for example. I think it's nice to be on that page, and all you have at the top is MIRA OPALINSKA / About. It almost comes across like a printed page, and I like that about it. I think a menu and language selectors etc. would detract from the simplicity and elegance.

On more ProcessWire specific stuff...

I have now updated to PW 2.5. There was some compatibility issues with the Thumbnail module, so for now will just use the built in core functionality. Everything else seems to work very well. Although I did have to refresh the browser two or three times to get the admin to look right (probably the old CSS was cached).

So, yeah... pretty seamless upgrade. But then I am only using 1 module now outside of core.

[diogo]

You didn't sound defensive at all!! Sorry that I started that, I can't repeat anymore that I love the site as it is

The comment on the menu comes exactly from that, because the site is so positively minimalistic, and yes, because it has a print feeling (I'm a graphic designer by the way), somehow I felt that the menu brings too much animation to it. It's also natural that André (onjegolders) and I have more or less the same vision on this because we worked together and had long conversations about these kind of details. But, unlike how pwired puts it, this was NOT criticism (constructive or not), but just a friendly and completely subjective remark on a detail on a site that I admire.

[onjegolders]

I'm totally up for a conversation about sliding navigation and if I'm coming across an defensive, that's not my intent. It's genuinely interesting to hear other people's views, and I was genuinely surprised to hear a few people mention uncertainty about the hidden nav.

From my own view, I'm 80% sure it's still the right decision and keeps any single page super-minimal and focused on content. Take the About page, for example. I think it's nice to be on that page, and all you have at the top is MIRA OPALINSKA / About. It almost comes across like a printed page, and I like that about it. I think a menu and language selectors etc. would detract from the simplicity and elegance.

On more ProcessWire specific stuff...

I have now updated to PW 2.5. There was some compatibility issues with the Thumbnail module, so for now will just use the built in core functionality. Everything else seems to work very well. Although I did have to refresh the browser two or three times to get the admin to look right (probably the old CSS was cached).

So, yeah... pretty seamless upgrade. But then I am only using 1 module now outside of core.

I think Diogo's suggestion of it being hidden on your homepage as it gives the full effect of the beautiful photograph, then it could show on the inside pages but you can be pleased with your work

[douglas81]

I haven't installed a new copy of 2.5 since AdminThemeReno was added to the core, but I believe it's a theme choice under Modules > Core > Admin. 

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Installed your admin theme. First impression... love it!

One tiny, teeny thing. I noticed the new default admin theme, under the setup tab, it has icons for templates and fields. The field icon is a single cube and the template icon is like a mini pyramid of cubes. I saw those and suddenly the concept of templates and fields and how they normally relate to one-another made perfect sense. On yours, they both have a little lightning bolt icon, which is cool, but I think the cube and pyramid cube thing is very clever and succinct visual cue.

But, of course, that's not a major thing at all and what I really want to say is: yes, best looking admin theme of any CMS I have ever used, ever. Thanks and well done!

[douglas81]

You didn't sound defensive at all!! Sorry that I started that, I can't repeat anymore that I love the site as it is

The comment on the menu comes exactly from that, because the site is so positively minimalistic, and yes, because it has a print feeling (I'm a graphic designer by the way), somehow I felt that the menu brings too much animation to it. It's also natural that André (onjegolders) and I have more or less the same vision on this because we worked together and had long conversations about these kind of details. But, unlike how pwired puts it, this was NOT criticism (constructive or not), but just a friendly and completely subjective remark on a detail on a site that I admire.

Thanks again and I totally hear what you're saying. Particularly these words...

"The comment on the menu comes exactly from that, because the site is so positively minimalistic, and yes, because it has a print feeling (I'm a graphic designer by the way), somehow I felt that the menu brings too much animation to it."

That's exactly true and I never thought of it like that. The animation element is almost at odds with the static print feel, almost too slick. I get that completely and I wonder if that's why I have sort of mixed feeling about sliding menus. Hmm. Food for thought. Thanks.

[diogo]

By the way, You might want to get yourself an avatar. On your 21st post the forum system will automatically and irreversibly replace the generic image by one of the spice girls (randomly chosen) 

[douglas81]

Avatar added. Crisis averted

[Pete]

By the way, You might want to get yourself an avatar. On your 21st post the forum system will automatically and irreversibly replace the generic image by one of the spice girls (randomly chosen) 

I need to make this a real thing - nobody would dare leave their avatar blank

[SiNNuT]

Of course there will be some that dare to do so

[visualcohol]

"Out of sight is out of mind" - You never ever hide or runtime-modify the menu unless it is absolutely necessary (mobile etc).
In case of the web: design is not only aesthetics!

Absolute UX nightmare - its the time of design when everything can and should be measured and researched - do some testing on the issue

[diogo]

"Out of sight is out of mind" - You never ever hide or runtime-modify the menu unless it is absolutely necessary (mobile etc).

In case of the web: design is not only aesthetics!

Absolute UX nightmare - its the time of design when everything can and should be measured and researched - do some testing on the issue

I don't think anyone would miss the menu in this case, it clearly says "menu" on the menu button. All recommendations have to be taken with a grain of salt, let's not all become guardians of the "correct way" and start designing all websites in the same way.