Wordpress dominates 19% of the web

[pwired]

Hi, Wordpress rattles the cage again with this article. Seems that wp makes up 19% of webpages

on the net and growing.

There are 46+ million downloads of WordPress and added 336 themes,
2.3 times more than last year. 9,334 plugins were requested, while 6,758
were approved, with a total of 26,000 to date in the library.

As for mobile, there have been 15 updates, 3 for iOS, 6 for Android and Windows Phone

in the past 12 months.

Anybody using WP next or besides PW ?

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/07/27/wordpress-now-powers-18-9-of-the-web-has-over-46m-downloads-according-to-founder-matt-mullenweg/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheNextWeb+%28The+Next+Web+All+Stories%29

To keep it in perspective:

http://www.sunarlim.com/2013/02/why-choose-processwire-over-wordpress/

 

[cstevensjr]

I believe these types of articles only serve as a distraction.  They are popular and get a lot of press.  Even if Wordpress had 99% of the webpages it doesn't make it a better product than ProcessWire.  

I have used Wordpress and Joomla for customer sites, in the past.  They were a tool that got the job done, then, because I wasn't aware/knowledgeable of better tools.

Since, I have discovered ProcessWire, I now know that those tools aren't appropriate for seriously developing websites or web applications.  They have great strengths but also many technical weaknesses. 

Anyone who seriously compares Wordpress, Joomla or Drupal to ProcessWire and then states that technically those 3 are better, is not dealing with reality.  I could spend the next year learning about all the remarkable things you can do with ProcessWire.  I now believe the only limitation is your imagination.

[Pete]

I now believe the only limitation is your imagination.

That's pretty much how I approach new projects now I have ProcessWire as my development tool

I also wonder as to how one can accurately work out a percentage of any tool's use on the web? Is there any way of working this out for every website everywhere in the world, or are the statistics coming from a small subset, like those that show up in Alexa rankings?

It's an impressive statistic if it's even remotely accurate, but it's not going to lure me in by any means

[OrganizedFellow]

For a number of decades, there was over 50% vehicle ownership of Ford automobiles. Were they the best? Nope, heck no, not by a long shot.

Things changed at some point, and Chevy, Chrysler, AMG, and many others sprouted greater/better ideas. Muscle cars were born. Economy cars took reign.

I'm not impressed with which sales are the highest, which has a higher user base, or which is wanted more *cough*iApple*cough*WordPress*cough*

I am impressed when the underdog brings to the light the customization, the ingenuity, the talent, the speed ... that's impressive.

[Macrura]

I built a site for a client with WP just about 5 months before discovering PW.

The client insisted on WP at that time and I couldn't see any reason why not.

Then about a year later they wanted to do a whole bunch of re-structuring; at this point I was already using PW and had built a few sites with it; When i looked at what they wanted to do, i had to cringe and say "this would be so easy in PW"... 

I ended up making extensive use of ACF (Advanced Custom Fields) which is a decent solution if you are stuck on WP. It can offer a tiny taste of what you can do in PW with custom fields and is allowing me to think like a Processwirer despite being trapped in WP; i did hit a brick wall once or twice (since there are some things WP+ACF simply can't do that PW can)... 

The other silly thing about this is that they requested WP because they thought it would be easy for their employees to manage the content. However this has not turned out to be the case, and consequently they ask me to make all the changes anyway.. Now i have to undergo the annoyance and aggravation of logging into the WP admin which is just awful (esp. in comparison to PW), and plodding through that interface to make their changes...

[Pete]

@OrganizedFellow - it's a bit long to fit on a t-shirt, but I like that whole post

@Macrura - Are you tempted - time-permitting - to change it to PW since they're asking you to do all the updates anyway? I know from a personal perspective it's just time that prevents me from going back and changing some other websites in my portfolio. Well... that and money since there's not usually money to be made in changing the system running a site if the client isn't particularly interested in changing that.

[pwired]

Yeah ok - not all of them - but some well prepared clients simply ask you 2 questions:

1. what cms are you going to use to build my website ?

2. who is going to maintain the website when you are no longer available / around anymore ?

For those reasons some clients want the website to be build with a cms also known by other people the client knows who can continue maintaining the website when you are not available or around anymore. Then it will be one of the established cms'es out there like wordpress or drupal. Those clients do not care that pw technically is superior to other cms'es and also can be taught to the client. They care about continuity and certainty.

First of all I think webbuilders who work for a webdesign company will never use pw because the company will dictate what cms to use, most probably not pw. So if you have your own webdesign company or work for your self or privately then you have the luxury to use the cms of your choice such as pw. But still have to say no every now and then to a client who asks you to build his website with wordpress. How does this occur to you guys when building websites ? In my case no one has ever asked me what cms I am going to use but then again my clients so far never thought about these matters and do not have a single clue about what is going on in the cms market.

[Soma]

Any decent web developer knowing php will be able to step into advanced PW building without problems. Not true to other system I know of.

[pwired]

Any decent web developer knowing php will be able to step into advanced PW building without problems. Not true to other system I know of.

Totally true if you are talking directly to that decent web developer knowing php. But the thing is that during the project you won't be talking to him but to the client or some project manager. Otherwise they would not need you in the first place. Are you going to convince the client that any decent webdeveloper knowing php always can take over maintaining their website with pw ? Now that we have arrived here, I must say damn good question anyway and have now added it to my notes.

[Macrura]

@Pete - i was really tempted to throw out WP on this last iteration, but it's really not my decision....so as long as they are paying me by the hour to take a long walk around WP i'll just carry on suffering...

[Zahari M.]

Hi guys

I've switched over from WordPress.

Perhaps it's better to say that I have graduated from WordPress.

I would like to add though that having spent a bit of time with Joomla, Drupal and WordPress, there was much to be learnt from the software and their respective communities in terms of their outlook and priorities.

By spending time in the WordPress world for instance, I have come to learn a lot on the subjects of Typography and Search Engine Optimization. Drupal gave me an appreciation for the usefulness for Taxonomy and certain concepts of logic. I thought their token system was a great idea. Joomla, well, it was illuminating to see the long term effects of their project leadership circa 1.5 and what happens when there isn't a clear or prompt roadmap for some of us users

Diversity in our world is a wonderful thing. May they all continue to "live long and prosper".

I wouldn't be both in instant awe and totally content with my wife PW had I not lived with those 3 bitches J, D & WP ...

The rascal that I was... sometimes I would have all 3 of em in the house at the same time...

[pwired]

I wouldn't be both in instant awe and totally content with my wife PW had I not lived with those 3 bitches J, D & WP

[Pete]

Those clients do not care that pw technically is superior to other cms'es and also can be taught to the client. They care about continuity and certainty.

Nowadays I care about not working with clients who don't trust my judgement with the tools I use. The last time I did any Wordpress development it was so painful to get something that should have worked working (yet another case of trying to make a plugin go that little bit further where PW wouldn't have needed a plugin/module) that it took almost 2 days to accomplish something that should have taken 2 hours.

@pwired - yes, I would definitely say - if asked by a client - it is far simpler to pick up ProcessWire than any other CMS from a developer point of view. I've been asked it before. There are all the other pros and cons though - how many ProcessWire security updates have there been? I don't think I even need to have fingers to count them Other systems on the other hand... many patches and all too often for my liking. I think it's a case of weighing it all up.

Of course, if you need the work and can't turn it down then don't, but if you think you can pass a job up and wait a bit longer for one you can do in ProcessWire we all know that a lot of the time you'll complete that PW site in a fraction of the time and be able to move onto the next job quicker.

First of all I think webbuilders who work for a webdesign company will never use pw because the company will dictate what cms to use, most probably not pw.

I used to work for a web dev company. Usually they have small teams and welcome the input, so back when I used MODx it didn't take a lot of convincing to have new websites build using MODx. If you're working for a decent web dev company, they will be interested in your experience and interested in looking at what tools you recommend - it's not just the single (as in team, not dating ) devs who are always looking for better tools.

In my case no one has ever asked me what cms I am going to use

This will be the case for the majority of clients. Larger clients will be more likely to ask, but they will also more likely be interested in whatever is the best tool to get the job done most efficiently. I think for clients who are interested, you have to seel the CMS/CMF as the tool that is best for the job, the one that is going to get it done quickest, and the one that won't tie them down in terms of features if they suddenly decide they want to add some new, complicated part to the site at the drop of a hat in the future. PW is good in terms of the unknown future requests purely because, in my experience, it's not a case of if you can do it in PW, but rather how you're going to do it - the question of "if" doesn't exist for many scenarios I've come across

@Macrura - yep, if you're happy with it then that's fine. Like I say, for some sites I've worked on it's time, money and the fact that it still works the way it is.

@Zahari - I like the "live long and prosper" philosophy. I don't think anyone here has come straight to ProcessWire without having used any other CMS, and without the others there would be a stifling of creativity I think. You can't have just one CMS - it's the reason there have been massive improvements in the discussion forum scene in recent years: competition breeds creativity.

The rascal that I was... sometimes I would have all 3 of em in the house at the same time...

[teppo]

For those reasons some clients want the website to be build with a cms also known by other people the client knows who can continue maintaining the website when you are not available or around anymore. [...] They care about continuity and certainty.

It's smart to consider continuity. A website is going to cost considerable amount of money and you'll want to be sure that this money is well spent. This is an issue I haven't had to deal much myself, always having worked with a company with somewhat respectable lifespan and status, but admittedly this can be problematic for smaller and younger companies -- freelancers etc. even more so.

Personally I believe the country-specific PW sites (de.processwire.com, upcoming italian site etc.) to be of critical importance here. Easiest way to tackle these worries is by pointing out that there are many qualified professionals around and their numbers are growing. It's important to know that you've got a safety net in case that things go wrong.

The more people start hearing of ProcessWire, the more they'll start trusting it. It's much easier to go with something you've heard at least a few mentions here and there instead of this quirky new system your somewhat nerdy developer seems to love. (Not trying to dismiss the fact that PW is definitely easy to learn, just saying that it's not a claim that all clients can reliably confirm and thus they should be a bit wary of claims like that.)

First of all I think webbuilders who work for a webdesign company will never use pw because the company will dictate what cms to use, most probably not pw.

I'm a "webbuilder" working for a webdesign company and I use PW. Just like Pete said, many of these companies are relatively small, can move quite fast if they want to and perhaps most importantly it'd be foolish to dismiss a tool that can both save a lot of work (and by "work" I mean "money") and improve the quality of your work simultaneously. One motivated developer can often make a huge difference when it comes to a companies choice of tools.

Around here many web design companies still use their own, custom-built, closed source tools. What was once considered a "best practice" seems to make less and less sense these days: can you imagine the costs of keeping up and running and also developing further a system that no-one outside of your company knows or can touch?

Especially compared to the option of using an open source system like ProcessWire, where a lot of development comes outside of your company, that's often just bad business. I wouldn't be too surprised if more companies started looking for alternatives in the near future and that is an opportunity for ProcessWire: it's unbelievably versatile, efficient and cost of learning to develop with it is a tiny fraction of what some other systems would definitely require. It's a great deal.

[OrganizedFellow]

@OrganizedFellow - it's a bit long to fit on a t-shirt, but I like that whole post

ha, thanks Pete, but I'm sure it depends on the shit!

As long as I know the subject matter, I can write up any analogy for it, lol.

[onjegolders]

I have to say the last time I tried to work with WP, I just couldn't believe how hard it was to find a custom fields plugin, figure it out, get it to work then sigh when it inevitably doesn't work as well as native PW.

I have to say one area where I think PW needs to close the gap is in using a nice shiny, modern admin interface. I love Ryan's original version, it's very ergonomic but I think a few of the newer systems out there benefit from really modern clean design (eg: Squarespace).

I'm currently making a few tweaks to Nikola's excellent Ergo theme.

[pwired]

No need to repeat how painful wp is compared to pw. We all know and the forum plus the net has many posts about it. Share with us what you do with clients or projects who ask you for wp - if any. Or maybe another asked cms. The issue is that more clients are going to know about wp and this is growing (19%) Don't get me wrong, for me pw is the choice but not always for a client or a (wp) project that needs to be picked up (maintained) for a client.

[onjegolders]

I understand what you're saying pwired. Most, if not all, of our clients of a certain size at least mention Wordpress. We normally then have a conversation about the downfalls of using WP and why we prefer to use PW. So far, no-one has insisted on WP but that could be to do with the fact that we tend to work with small -medium sized companies.

I'm pretty sure at some point we will face a client who insists upon it and we'll then have to weigh up whether or not to go with this client or perhaps turn down the work.

What's your experience pwired?

[pwired]

What's your experience pwired?

No one has ever asked me to do a new website in wp. I always could do it in modx evo and lately

in the superior pw, so my own choices.

However one client has asked me to maintain his website pattaya /\ plaza - com

This website is build with wordpress - so there you have it. I have to learn wordpress or

say no to this job. Which I can not afford because I need the money. Since a week I have

no regular job at the moment. It's big time crisis here in spain and more people end up on

the streets. Wished I started websites and php 10 years ago. There's always work for that.

[pwired]

I'm a "webbuilder" working for a webdesign company and I use PW.

Consider your self double lucky !! Can only dream about this.

[onjegolders]

Have to say Nikola's Ergo template is really great, I've modified a few things and removed the sidebar area as my clients don't tend to need it.

I really think @Nico Knoll should be building an admin theme when he gets back of his Interrailing trip!

[SiNNuT]

The only question i see in the OP is "Anybody using WP next or besides PW ?"

To which the obvious answer is: Doh, a lot.

As for the rest of the links and propaganda i cba, too many flaws and smells of propaganda.

BTW, According to my own studies PW now owns 23,67 procent of the interwebs, so eat that Wordpress

(no h8 toward TS)

[Zahari M.]

Hi Guys

Ya know, I find it illuminating to read here that many of you find PW easy to learn and WP a painful experience.

I'm wondering if this might be a left brain right brain thing?

My personal experience is actually the reverse!

Why I say this is that I find WP very understandable and manageable. In turn I find PW hard to learn.

I mention this not to disagree with you guys at all. Just relating that I have found it hard to get to grips with PW. A lot of this difficulty that "I" face is due to the fact that a lot of the documentation that exists makes sense to someone with a certain "development and learning history".

So what I am thinking is, depending on your learning history, and the software you have used in the past, much of the documentation for PW makes crystal clear sense, as witnessed by all the exchanges all you guys have in the forums.

I see a few "missing blocks" in the documentation that if they were to exist,  WOULD make it very easy to learn PW.

Our member Joss, I believe, saw these same ommisions, and has created some posts that really helped me "comprehend the ProcessWire way"...

http://wiki.processwire.com/index.php/Basic_Website_Tutorial

This one really helped... So thank you Joss!

But I don't think WP is as bad as it seems to be made out to be here. One of the WP lead developers, Mark Jaquith, uses the tag line, WordPress puts food on my table.

From what I see here, it's putting food on some tables here too.  And based on what the stats are suggesting, one in every 4 clients may have a WP site. WP skills are a great thing to have.

Anyways, Im so glad I found ProcessWire. I think its's awesome and I wouldn't go back.

I hope my post doesnt seem like its disagreeing or is in anyway an argument guys!! Just sharing some inner thoughts....

I'm just the newbie student here and am learning a heck of a lot from all of you!

Cheers guys

[Pete]

I don't think anyone has suggested it's not easy to learn. I think the experiences in this topic (mine anyway) come from trying to make it or a module do slightly more than they are designed to.

So much can be done in PW without modules in a short space of time once you get going, whereas everything extra seems to require a module in WP, and good luck tweaking them to your needs if they don't do what you want.

That's just my experience mind, and I'll admit I've never spent a huge amount of time trying to get to grips with WP purely because it didn't ever seem to fit my needs well enough.

[kongondo]

<offtopic>@Zahari, no need to apologise for having a different opinion . We can't all think the same and nobody here expects us too </offtopic>