Forms driving you crazy? Something I'm developing ...

[PHPSpert]

Hey guys,

Working on a new idea I've wanted to do for a long time. It's fairly simple and small but maybe you guys will be able to use it in your PW projects at some point.

I'm still working on it but here's what it's all about:

http://phpformbaby.skakunmedia.com

It's called PHPFormBaby and I'm still not sure if it's going to be just one class or a library.

But I'm going to get it out soon and get your opinions on it.

Cheers!

[AnotherAndrew]

Thanks Clinton! That looks like a promising start. Please do keep us up to date.

I know Ryan has kicked out a form builder module (and its sweet!), but he has stuck a price tag on it. I realize that he has spent a lot of time on it, but I would prefer if PW was just users helping one another out and not trying to turn a profit. So thanks for taking a stab at this!!

[diogo]

Pete, how can i dislike a post?

[Martijn Geerts]

@ClintonSkakun, thankyou for posting.

@AnotherAndrew, ryan is helping users whenever he can. Sometimes I think there are 2 of them. There's a lot of time spend on building the cms, community & modules. PW without formbuilder is fantastic on its own. You don't have to use it. It's good that there are more possibilities.

For me buying formbuilder is next to the usefulness also a way to say thank you to ryan.

[SiNNuT]

Sounds interesting.

A minor suggestion; the h1 seems to get mangled in FF (16.0.1) somehow. Chrome and even IE (9) seem ok.

[AnotherAndrew]

Martijn Geerts:

I knew I might stir up the bees nest. I'm not dissing on Ryan's work at all and saying that it is not appreciated.

Perhaps we should have a donation option for those that would like to support PW. I would love to support Ryan's work and expenses, even supporting the hosting for this site and the forums. I think that would be a better gesture of support than by buying code.

[Martijn Geerts]

@AnotherAndrew, thanks for your reply. There's an discussion here, maybe you're interested.

[AnotherAndrew]

Thanks @Martijn Geerts. I will give it a read. Good to see that this has perhaps already been discussed.

[diogo]

I knew I might stir up the bees nest

You knew it but you did it anyway... there are many occasions when it is good to shake things up, but I honestly think you didn't choose the proper place, time or words. Ryan already said on the forum that he plans to dedicate more of his time to PW, and that he just has to compensate the loss of money that it would mean for him and his family. He is not forced to discuss this kind of things with us, but he does, and even asks for the others opinions. Code is as good for selling as any other product or service, and I would say, a very honest choice for taking some profit of such a great work as PW is. And hopefully he does.

Maybe this discussion will also interest you http://processwire.c...-in-the-future/

[renobird]

I think commercial modules are appropriate and should be encouraged. I suspect there are a large number of us that utilize Processwire (and other open source products) to make a living. I think collectively we are fortunate (and spoiled) by the myriad of software available at no cost. Processwire has made a massive impact on my productivity and ability to deliver complex products.

If Ryan can develop some commercial modules that allow him to spend more time developing PW (and make a profit on all the work he's put into this truly amazing system), I am happy to support that effort — and if there's a place to donate to the cause directly, I'll be glad to do that as well.

[AnotherAndrew]

Elequently worded Reno and I can see your point and position. I think I can agree with you on this.

Sorry to hijack the ClintonSkakun's forum on developing a module for forms! BTW I would like to help with creating an additional form module. Let me know ClintonSkakun how I can help. I will look into some more about the php class and how it can ride on PW.

[cstevensjr]

I have recently become acquainted with ProcessWire and feel extremely lucky to have discovered this Open Source community. I find it truly amazing that something with the quality and flexibility of ProcessWire is available for free. I am blown away by how the community works and contributes. I have been reading the posts on this forum and love how developers are actually helping each other with solutions.

Form Builder is a very impressive tool and should be a commercial offering. I had no problem in buying my Developer's license. I also won't have any problem ensuring my clients buy an individual license. It is a great product that is well thought out. It is a definite time saver that quickly provides professional results.

I am just glad that Ryan has kept this tool at an affordable price. He even solicits advice from us on making improvements and we don't have to wait long for enhanced capabilities. I applaud the fact that he is being properly reimbursed for his hard work.

I like where this project is headed. I appreciate all the other developers who are actively involved. I am thankful everyone provides concise technical explanations in their posts. This allows me to learn more and more each day about ProcessWire.

[netcarver]

Just throwing this into the melting-pot.

[ryan]

I would prefer if PW was just users helping one another out and not trying to turn a profit.

Do you get paid for the sites that you would with PW? When you come to the forums to get help, do you limit your questions purely to development work that you are doing for free?

I originally developed PW to help us all create better sites in less time, and with more fun. I'm hoping that PW is helping others to be more competitive in all ways, including financially. But recognize that PW did not come into existence on its own. Years worth of time and money has gone into making ProcessWire happen. If you are using ProcessWire to develop sites you get paid for, then you are profiting from ProcessWire. And that's fine with me, no ROI is expected or wanted--I've never asked anyone for anything. But it is disheartening to hear a user make a statement with the implications yours makes.

Form Builder is not about making a profit. I don't expect that I will ever make enough on it to offset the actual time investment on it. My hope is that eventually it will be something where the community and myself have split the cost to create. If I wanted a profit, I would go make a Form Builder for WordPress or Drupal where the user base is large enough for that potential to exist.

Form Builder is a tool that wouldn't exist if I had to fully self fund it. It's also an experiment to determine if I can reduce my client workload and substitute some of it with ProcessWire-related development that benefits all of us. But I can't substitute something that supports my family with something that doesn't.

Form Builder is here to benefit you, not me. If you build sites for a living (or even a hobby) it's going to pay for itself the first time you use it. If you previously spent half a day building a form, now you can spend minutes and get a better, more secure and capable result that can do all sorts of things with the results it collects.

Also want to note that Form Builder is something completely different from the original subject of this thread and I don't view them as similar products at all. Likewise, Form Builder is completely different from something like Zend Form or others like it. One does not preclude the use of the other and we should all keep more than one tool in our forms toolbox. I fully support Clinton's project and any others that benefit forms in ProcessWire. Forms are one of the most diverse and important aspects of web development. I feel very confident about the value of Form Builder in your toolbox, so have made it 100% refundable if you find it isn't for you (this type of return policy is pretty rare with digital products).

[videokid]

I know... old...

no ROI is expected or wanted--I've never asked anyone for anything. But it is disheartening to hear a user make a statement with the implications yours makes. 

This is why I bought form-builder and actually never use it ...

[Mont]

Form Builder is here to benefit you, not me. If you build sites for a living (or even a hobby) it's going to pay for itself the first time you use it. If you previously spent half a day building a form, now you can spend minutes and get a better, more secure and capable result that can do all sorts of things with the results it collects.

Bingo!