Let's Talk Hosting

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings,

Currently, I have a dedicated server from HostGator, and I have not had any trouble at all with them. But with my current agreement coming to an end, and my projects expanding, I feel it's important to loo around before I sign on for another year.

I see that Ryan strongly endorses ServInt. This endorsement tells me a lot. I am therefore leaning towards ServInt. But I have a lot of respect for the people in this community and would be curious to hear what other people here think...

Thanks,

Matthew

[Soma]

Just throwing that in, cause I know there some threads about similar subject. Let's see

http://processwire.com/talk/topic/523-good-hosting-for-processwire/

I think hosting companies like serverInt are the ones to look out for. I'd even prefer to pay a little more if service is really good and server fast. Never take a cheap just to save money.

[diogo]

I went for Linode following the suggestion from Apeisa on that second link, and i can only say good things. It can mean some work to have an unmanaged VPS, but it also means a lot of learning on a subject so important and that we ignore so much. The docs are very good, and if i screw up, for plus 5€/m i get all the server backed up regularly and on demand.

[adamspruijt]

I personally endorse WiredTree, amazing support, fair pricing, blazing fast. From my research I found they were neck in neck with ServInt in the managed VPS space. For unmanaged I always go BuyVM, crazy cheap, fast, near 100% uptime.

[panictree]

Hi Matthew,

I think you can't go wrong with ServInt. Their service is certainly top notch, and so is their customer support. Linode, as suggested by diogo, is also an excellent choice if you're willing to put in some work. Then, LiquidWeb are generally regarded as a solid option but I haven't had any first-hand experience with them, so I can't really say.

In the UK, I've had a positive experience with UnitedHosting. They offer completely managed services and their customer support is, as far as I can tell, among the best in the industry. Compared with US hosting, they're not cheap though. I've also heard good things about Clook Internet, which are also based in the UK and offer a similar service and pricing structure as UnitedHosting.

I hope that helps.

Claudio

[diogo]

For unmanaged I always go BuyVM, crazy cheap, fast, near 100% uptime

Wow, that is cheap! I'm inclined to test it even though it's outside Europe. It doesn't seem to have a DNS manager, how do you manage your domains?

[Joss]

For unmanaged I always go BuyVM, crazy cheap, fast, near 100% uptime.

Sounds particularly useful for development - which package do you use?

[MatthewSchenker]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the input on lots of great options.

I'm leaning towards ServInt because of Ryan's endorsement. If people here choose ServInt, I hope Ryan (ProcessWire) gets some kind of commission!

I want to emphasize again that HostGator has been excellent for me. In two years, I have never had any downtime, and they are always available for help within minutes of opening a chat window. My reason for switching is because of an assumed need for stronger resources as I go forward with some large-scale sites.

Also, I'm only looking at managed dedicated servers, not VPS or individual hosting plans. The idea of a self-managed server is attractive, but not sure if it's practical to deal with that when managed plans are not much more cost annually?

Analyzing price, ServInt and Hostgator are fairly comparable. But ServInt appears to have better systems for the price.

It's interesting... So many choices in the development/design world. But choosing a long-term hosting setup can be more difficult than other decisions.

Thanks,

Matthew

[ryan]

I don't get any commissions from ServInt. But they do provide a dedicated server for the ProcessWire project, which we don't have to pay for. I think this is really awesome of them to support the ProcessWire project in this way. If you get an account with Servint it's good to mention ProcessWire, just as a way to say thanks, if you want to. But just wanted to mention that nobody is getting any commissions or payments. We all are getting a great server, because Servint likes ProcessWire and supports open source.

[MatthewSchenker]

Hey Ryan,

OK, thanks! It would be fine with me if you got a commission. But I'm glad I asked, so there won't be any confusion about your endorsement.

I'm going to contact ServInt after the holiday madness.

Thanks,

Matthew

[adamspruijt]

Wow, that is cheap! I'm inclined to test it even though it's outside Europe. It doesn't seem to have a DNS manager, how do you manage your domains?

They actually offer an Offloaded DNS Hosting add-on for 1 dollar a month, typical cPanel setup. (comes with 5gb storage tossed in too... guess you could use this for backups, though I've never put it to use)

Sounds particularly useful for development - which package do you use?

Right now I have a 512 OpenVZ and a 128 OpenVZ, I also have the offloaded SQL add-on for $1 a month and DNS Hosting add-on for $1.

These add-ons were particularly awesome when it came to setting up the 128, which I put a stripped down debian with Nginx (no need to put MySQL in). With 20+ users on my site RAM use will stay around 40mb (and with some work I actually plan to further reduce this, wish me luck ).

Be warned though, getting a VPS with these guys can be very hard, I recommend following them on twitter or checking this site all the time. For example, I literally bought my 128 two days ago and there were 12 available? All gone now.

[Marty Walker]

I've had great experience with KnownHost and their managed VPS. Most of the PW sites I run are hosted there.

[ryan]

Years ago when I was doing hosting research Wiredtree and Knownhost came up as having good reputations at webhostingtalk.com, which is where I've always gone to research these things. Good to hear these are still recommended by folks. That's where I originally found out about Servint too. All other things being equal, I think it's good to choose a host with a data center relatively close to you geographically (ping times can make a difference). Though overall history and stability are still the most important to me.

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings Everyone,

Another question that comes up is whether to go with dedicated or VPS for host management. I really like managing all my clients from one place. I have assumed dedicated is the way to go, but it seems that VPS has become a stronger option in recent years.

Looking at KnownHost (for example), it's possible to get a top-level VPS host-management arrangement with more resources than some dedicated environments, at a far lower cost.

Opinions?

Thanks,

Matthew

[Joss]

I suppose this is down to scalability in the end. If you have a very clear idea what you need and how much power you want, then a dedicated machine might prove a very controllable option.

If however, you may want to increase scalability, then a VPS or cloud solution may give more versatility, both in price and power. Although things like Amazon can be pricey, I like the idea that you can scale DOWN as well as up!

Also, there is the clients' needs (business-wise rather than technical).

If they have no need for a dedicated server for themselves as such, then they may or may not be happy being tied into a developers machine; if the relationship goes sour, it gets very, very complicated.

I look at this from the point of view of buying a car from a dealer.

When you buy, it makes sense to take advantage of the dealers servicing options and so on. But you can choose to make that a contractual relationship or a casual one - if you just tend to use them out of habit rather than because you have welded yourself to them, when they mess up you can simply go somewhere else; you don't have to first of all get the car and the car keys back from them.

In my main business (music production and writing), clients use me because they like me, not because they are contractually or technically bound to me. If I tried that, then they would go elsewhere pretty damned quick!

I think at least part of the IT world has got itself into a mess because it has tried to enforce client loyalty rather than keep the client by offering good services and building a good relationship.

[ryan]

Looking at KnownHost (for example), it's possible to get a top-level VPS host-management arrangement with more resources than some dedicated environments, at a far lower cost.

I completely agree with the things Joss said about scalability. But it's not such a big task to move from one server to another either (hosts like ServInt can even do it for you). So I wouldn't let scalability drive the decision unless your scalability needs are short term or recurring. If resources and redundancy are similar, I think it's worth paying a little extra for dedicated. If you get a seriously major cost, resources or redundancy benefit from going VPS, then I'd probably do that. Though I'm not sure that resources on a dedicated and VPS are apples to apples, so personally I'd sacrifice slightly on resources to have dedicated if I could get the prices in a similar range. I have (via my clients) both high end VPSs and dedicated servers in a similar price range. Both perform beautifully. But I feel a little better about the dedicated machines because the resources just seem a little cleaner... no worries about what other high traffic sites we might be paired with, burst memory/CPU, etc. Just raw resources ready for anything.

[joshuag]

I have been on Mediatemple for about 10 years now. I love them. I know people out there on the web have mixed feelings, but after trying and dealing with a tonne of hosts over the years I don't want to use anything else. I have about 150 domains on the MT grid and a couple V dedicated servers. Always awesome, great support, good prices. My 2 cents.

[MatthewSchenker]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the input, opinions, advice... It's great to hear what ProcessWire people are choosing.

I agree with Ryan that for the money it often makes sense to jump to a dedicated server. When you consider the cost on a yearly basis, it makes more sense. Since clients pay for hosting, it takes care of itself when getting the best resources possible to support your projects.

Joss: I'm looking at dedicated severs to build my own shared resource center for clients (i.e., I am hosing them on my dedicated seever).

Joshuag: yes, I considered MediaTemple and like the options they offer. But when I was reading some reviews they seemed to be a mixed picture.

Thanks,

Matthew

[Pete]

Not had any problems with Servint, plus they have an Amsterdam datacentre now as well for us European folks.

Used LiquidWeb and then StormOnDemand (by Liquidweb, but cloud hosting) when the site that was hosted on the normal hosting there got a bit big. Being able to scale resources using Storm is a nice touch - had a few popular weeks on one site in particular and was able to just increase the CPU and RAM in a short space of time and, whilst you pay extra (to the end of the month on the higher resources I think) if you scale it back after your busy period you only pay for the time you used it at the higher resources - they basically sort it out over the next bill or two depending on what you used.

The only issue with StormOnDemand is a recent issue whereby mod_seurity got upgraded and wiped out all of my rules. Since these rules were from years ago, it was a pain making it so every script worked again (fortunately it's only forum software, MediaWiki and ProcessWire, but it was still a few days of 404 errors when editing certain things). I think ServInt uses some other system entirely for handling attacks - some firewall that they've got set up - so I wouldn't have faced that particular problem with ServInt, but all that aside, I've not had any other problems with LiquidWeb at all over the last 5+ years.

Stellar support at both companies so take your pick

[ryan]

Something else good to say about ServInt is that they've been routinely upgrading the capabilities of their existing accounts over time, without asking for more money. In my case I have an Essential VPS account I bought with them years and years ago. The account doesn't stay at the specs you bought it at. If the capabilities of your plan gets upgraded for new/prospective customers, then it gets upgraded for you too. You don't even have to ask. It just happens and they let you know after the fact that "you now have an extra 10 gigs of space", for example. ServInt is good at keeping the customer happy in the long run.

This is different from other hosts I've dealt with, and am currently dealing with. I've had a account with PowerVPS for as long as I've had one with ServInt. It's also been quite reliable, but it is configured identically to when I purchased it years ago. The ServInt one is now much more capable than the PowerVPS one, despite the fact that they started the same and cost the same. Now I am at the point where I'm looking to get rid of the PowerVPS one just because it's no longer competitive.