Opinions, Questions, issues and Praises !

[alchime.net]

Few issues (and praises below):

Your registration mail for the forum went to spams wich is not the case usually

(I don't know maybe with some little changes to the mail subjet and sender name..)

When editing side bar i happen to grab accidentely (twice already) the

images tab juste under (with the files field) and as a result i got it included

in the text aera (!). But with ctrl+z and then saving i could'nt reitarate..

If i got it again i'll post you a screen captation.

And i guess it would'n have work from front end 

Opinion :

What about some icons to get the same undo result as some CTRL+Z actions..

What about versioning ?

Questions :

When you resize an image in the editor those it generate a new image ? (not just specificating dimensions)

@Ryan Why php (instead of python for exemple ? i would like to know you opinion in few words..)

Praises :

Woa man, great works ! I haven't been admirative of a cms since i discover Modx first beta (2006).

I just like how simple things are right now in ProcessWire, even if havent grab yet how will i do

some front end uploads of jpg + registration of new user + let them vote for an user/picture..

The drag and drop uploading of pictures is just inbelievable, actualy it's the first time i see

that in a cms ! Could that work in front end too ?

And to finish i read some of your blog's opinion, forum answers and the code in templates.

and there are all worth reading. Especially the php code in template is so well documented

and shorten by the use of PW Api that it's probably the first time that i'm able to quickly understand

how it works and did'nt feel overwhelmed by the code as i'm not a developper..

Regards,

Mickaël

[Soma]

Few issues (and praises below):

Your registration mail for the forum went to spams wich is not the case usually

(I don't know maybe with some little changes to the mail subjet and sender name..)

Welcome Mickael, that can happen and not always depends on the subject/content of the email but on the email filter of your mail server, some mail servers mark them as spam when first time reciveing email from a unknown domain, once you accept it will not be spam anymore.

When editing side bar i happen to grab accidentely (twice already) the

images tab juste under (with the files field) and as a result i got it included

in the text aera (!). But with ctrl+z and then saving i could'nt reitarate..

If i got it again i'll post you a screen captation.

And i guess it would'n have work from front end  

Not sure what you're talking about. Do you mean an image itself? TinyMCE does support drag and drop of images, though it get inserted as base64 encoded url string.

Opinion :

What about some icons to get the same undo result as some CTRL+Z actions..

What about versioning ?

Undo and redo, isn't implemented in PW, but you can add button in TinyMCE for that.

Questions :

When you resize an image in the editor those it generate a new image ? (not just specificating dimensions)

@Ryan Why php (instead of python for exemple ? i would like to know you opinion in few words..)

If inserting an image in TinyMCE using PWs image dialog, it inserts and new resized version of the image.

Praises :

Woa man, great works ! I haven't been admirative of a cms since i discover Modx first beta (2006).

I just like how simple things are right now in ProcessWire, even if havent grab yet how will i do

some front end uploads of jpg + registration of new user + let them vote for an user/picture..

That's why we all love PW Frontend stuff is easily possible depending on your php skills, search through the forum, theres some threads concerning front end implementation of forms. Since there's different ways to do such thing usually, you should first get familiar with the system and ask and search in forum. I think there will be at some point exists modules for doing things more easy on frontend as this is what many poeple have been asking.

The drag and drop uploading of pictures is just inbelievable, actualy it's the first time i see

that in a cms ! Could that work in front end too ?

That's true, it is great feature! - See respond above.

And to finish i read some of your blog's opinion, forum answers and the code in templates.

and there are all worth reading. Especially the php code in template is so well documented

and shorten by the use of PW Api that it's probably the first time that i'm able to quickly understand

how it works and did'nt feel overwhelmed by the code as i'm not a developper..

That's again why we all love PW for what it is!

Thanks,

Soma

[ryan]

Mickaël, thanks for our feedback and welcome to the forums.

@Ryan Why php

Good question, and there are so many reasons. PHP (5) is the language I enjoy using the most and fits my style better than the others. PHP doesn't step over boundaries I don't want it to, and it leaves me in control in the places where I want it to. Some people dislike PHP for these very same reasons, and beginners can get in trouble because of them. There are those that find languages like Python and Ruby ideal for them, and I think that's great (I rather like those languages too). But ultimately they are looking for different things than I am. PHP is perfectly balanced for our projects and allows us to get stuff done fast … more results, less chatter. Other factors are that I come from a background in C/C++ and always liked the syntactic and naming similarities. I also like PHP's balance of similarities (and differences) with Javascript. PHP has been used at a larger scale online than any other language I know of, powering the world's busiest site and serving as the backbone for several other of the world's busiest sites. PHP has proven it's scalability and strength in real life like no other language. Lastly, an open source project written in PHP will have the opportunity to spread farther, run on more servers and get more use than those written in other languages. Most truly experienced developers realize that languages really don't matter, coders do. But if you are building an open source project, it does matter … no other language can approach PHP's availability and adoption rate: factors that matter quite a lot for open source. PHP is a great language all around and even if you remove all the other factors, I just plain love using it.

[alchime.net]

Thanks both for your answers.

@Soma thanks for the second part of you answer. But, an i'll try to not be verbose (just learn that world, i'm french).

  I've been using usint that email box for years and it m'ight be the first time that i miss a registration message because

 it went to spam but it might just be the spam filter that have change a bit..

 2/ The images upload fiel in the back office went to the sidebar textaera. maybe a javascript bug..

Again if it happens again (using firefox eight)

@Ryan Great answer, thanks for you thoughts and the time given in this open source project.

Hope it will gather the participation (and use it deserve.

But i didn't atcualy quite grab the difference you do bettwen a developper and a coder.

You mean if you got the logic, the language doesn't matter ?

[update], you had it answered like 3 years ago : http://www.ryancramer.com/journal/entries/php/

Great name by the way "ProcessWire".

Minor things : With my way of working i ve got a least a frond end tab in FF, and admin of local pw in tab and forums, somes

officials pw pages in tab ... and the similarities of "visual look" could get confusing.. ;-) (same graphique templates..)

And what about a Pw favicon ;-) ?

Regards,

Mickaël

[ryan]

We could use a favicon, and I've actually been working on an icon of sorts, but havent settled in it yet. For variation of admin/site/theme design, I'm relying on the community to build new admin themes and Soma has built a nice one called teflon that you may want to check out. Over time I'm sure more variation will continue to evolve throughout.

With languages I was meaning to use the terms coder and developer synonymously. When you want to investigate a language, tune out the noise and then look at what's been built with it. Folks who get hung up on languages are not the ones who make things happen. So if somebody is really defensive about their language choice, be that Ruby, PHP, Python, etc., don't listen to that person. Likewise if they are condeming about someone else's language choice, don't listen to that person. Instead, go and code--build something cool or make something happen. And let the amateurs debate languages. Ultimately it's the coder that matters. When a coder doesn't matter, they must compensate by becoming a language critic.

Glad you like the name ProcessWire. I like it too. So that makes at least two of us

[alchime.net]

I guess the question about wich programming language depends of you background and when you are not (yet?) a

coder you are looking for the easiest one to learn with différent considération, the "vocabularies", and for me is it

too verbose or too short (in that case it's harder to understand when you begin, like php shortcuts sometimes) ?*

books, tutorial avaible etc.. (and hosting too ;-)

By the way if anyone has some php easy learning ressources to share (books, site' etc..)

In france we have a web site call "lesiteduzero" wich is nice but a bit inconsistent.

Right now codes using your api seems to be quite easier to understant than php by himself (after reading some of your posts).

The balance* seems right for me. (with your comments obviously.. and in general you are quite pedagogic wich is not so common)

and python can do local softwares with i guess could attract some peoples for this dual abbilitie (web/software)

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The Jquery UI leave the moz specific css in your Frond End theme, propoerties that are still  a bit surprising for me..

Images uses : let's say you had put some img in you pages (with that great uploading feature) and then you link  to one of those

from an another page(s) : work great.

BUT : as pictures are showing alternavelly in the FEnd theme, you decide to take off one them, but it was a picture

linked somewhere else, in another pages.. Then it's gone for everypages.

So is there a way to prevent that ?  I quickly thought about setting a children with images for the parent but i haven't really think of any "workflow" and given much thinking yet honestly. I will have when gallery needs arise.

I do link the "basic" admin theme for now, i'll might just tweak it a bit  (and translate it in french somehow for clients/users).

The Ryan copyright in admin is fine for me but there is no clickable link to processwire web site.. (i wanted a short cut!)

Thanks again for your time. I 'll put some more specif questions in new topics.. in the future.

Regards,

M.

[diogo]

Ryan should write a book on php

I would buy it, and tell everyone to

[alchime.net]

Yeap make it in PDF, add a part about PW api for donation ;D Kazam

[edit] add a part about organisation cause Ryan you must have a hell of agenda sometimes..

Regards,

[ryan]

By the way if anyone has some php easy learning ressources to share (books, site' etc..)

It's been a long time since I've purchased a new PHP book. The old ones continue to work pretty well. PHP.net (and google) are my main PHP resources these days. Attached is a photo of the books I have, but I think most of them are probably now outdated. But I would  think that any learning PHP5 book on Amazon with lots of 5 star reviews would be a good way to go (that's how I bought most of mine anyway). By no means should you need as many books as I have... I just have an unhealthy habit of buying lots of books for any tool that I use.

and python can do local softwares with i guess could attract some peoples for this dual abbilitie (web/software)

PHP can too and it's especially good with command line scripts (which ProcessWire will also do). But for building windowing applications with PHP, you need to use a library with it (and I've not used it before). PHP was a language originally designed specifically for the web, so it's use in native applications that are non-web applications is probably not as strong as other languages that were designed pre-web or for other purposes. But I also think that is one of PHP's assets, in that it really is a pure-web language.

The Jquery UI leave the moz specific css in your Frond End theme, propoerties that are still  a bit surprising for me..

Not sure I understand? Can you re-word?

BUT : as pictures are showing alternavelly in the FEnd theme, you decide to take off one them, but it was a picture

linked somewhere else, in another pages.. Then it's gone for everypages.

That's correct. It is possible to break image/file links in that manner. Though my experience has been that it's rather uncommon in real life scenarios. Down the road we'll have more modules to babysit these things, but for now ProcessWire is kind of like a file system. If you delete a file, then any symlinks to it are broken. If you are pulling images from other pages, I usually recommend having a 'shared assets' page that you would use for shared media and use care when deleting things from your shared assets. But note that we will eventually track assets behind the scenes to provide warning messages when you are deleting something that may be referenced elsewhere.

I do link the "basic" admin theme for now, i'll might just tweak it a bit  (and translate it in french somehow for clients/users).

The Ryan copyright in admin is fine for me but there is no clickable link to processwire web site.. (i wanted a short cut!)

We will have built-in support for translation in the admin before the end of the year. Also I think you are right that there should probably be a link in the admin so I will make a point to add that in the near future.

Thanks,

Ryan

[alchime.net]

Nice picture . Pretty hard to beat..

So you won't write yours soon ? ;-)

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>The Jquery UI leave the moz specific css in your Frond End theme, properties that are still  a bit surprising for me..

>>Not sure I understand? Can you re-word?

In the css there is specific properties for mozilla, like the ones difining border for divs.

For me - it's annoying cause i feel it's redondant, have to make change twice but :

a) This is you theme you do it the way ou want..

b) I'm sure it might be usefull for some persons (is that CS3 properties by the way ?)

Hope it's more understandable.

[apeisa]

alchime: You shouldn't update jQuery UI styles by hand. They are bloat, but there is nice online generator for that: themeroller which outputs you the css.

[ryan]

I think I see what you are talking about– the "-moz-*" declarations that appear in /wire/templates-admin/styles/JqueryUI/JqueryUI.css?

I did not create that CSS file, it was actually generated by the jQuery UI themeroller, so just part of the jQuery UI framework. I'm assuming they are using it for progressive enhancement for older versions of Firefox (like Firefox 3) that don't support the native CSS3 properties, but do support the -moz- versions of them. LIkewise for any -webkit-, -o- or -ie- ones that you see. The purpose of it is so that things can still look good on earlier versions of these browsers, before they had full CSS3 support (which admittedly doesn't matter all that much for our audience).

[alchime.net]

I was talking about the main.css of the front end but the same apply to admin..

Apeisa. Thanks for the advice, i will give a closer 2nd look to the themeroller

but i usually use firebug and edit on the fly my css..

[apeisa]

I was talking about the main.css of the front end but the same apply to admin..

There isn't any browser prefixed css in main.css. Stuff you are seeing are probably from user agent stylesheet: ie. default styles for firefox - they are same on every site and come from browser, not from site. Firebug probably shows those too, at least chrome developer tools shows chrome styles.

[alchime.net]

thanks apeisa for your input, i'll check that soon..and 'll confirm here.

[ryan]

ProcessWire's templates-admin/styles/main.css has an @include(JqueryUI.css) at the top of it, so also a good chance that Firebug is just showing it as part of main.css.