[forum] I just wrote 1,500th post! :)

[Adam Kiss]

This one is actually 1,501st, so congrats us!

[ryan]

Wow, I can't believe we got up to that many posts so quickly. Then I just looked at my post count and see I account for more than a 3rd of them...  :-\

[Adam Kiss]

Well, yeah, 3 of us (you, apeisa & me) did actually 2/3rd of all posts, but still, it isn't that bad!

[apeisa]

Great stuff

Actually, we should start discussing soon (maybe after 2.1 release) how we get PW more popular! I would love to see more module developers and people contributing.

[ryan]

I agree, and I think once 2.1 is in stable release it'll be a good time to get PW up on sites like opensourcecms and others. I've intentionally avoided that kind of thing until I could get the software further along. We've also built up a pretty good email list of people subscribing to updates on the site, but I've not actually sent anything to the list yet (I'm a little short on time right now). But I figure also once 2.1 is ready we'll start doing regular distributions to this opt-in list as well. What are other ways you think would be good to do 'marketing'? (not sure if that's the right term in this case).

[apeisa]

I'm little old school here, but I believe that good content brings followers. This means - of course - that pw will continue evolving and being the best cms there is. But also more quality articles and tutorials need to be written. Also more open source examples (full sites) would be great. Like the often required easy to follow "how to turn this design to pw site" -tutorial.

Also other articles would be great - if they are well written and touch other popular topics. I mean posts like "Processwire and Drupal compared", "Building blogs better than wordpress", and all the stuff that Ryan has written here on the forums (like using pw with ajax etc). Also trying to get these topics to popular sites. Well written introduction tutorial on nettuts would bring tons of people to processwire.

Processwire.com is great site (clean looks, lot's of quality content, great documents etc), but it could be more attractive for first comers. I remember that it was second time when I stumbled to processwire.com when I decided to download it and try. First impression from the site was that it was something too small (on scale with pulse cms, perch etc) for our needs. I think that front page should be more "proud" about all the strengths that pw has. It needs superlatives

"Super easy user interface - your client can manage complex data in easy manner."

"Flexible data modeling - you can build anything"

"Relations - easy cake!"

"Does it scale - yes, there are huge sites build on top of pw!"

"100% Control over your markup."

"It's actually a great framework, even for command line use"

"More flexible than drupal, more simpler than CMS made simple."

Something like that. I'm not native english speaker or copywriter, so these examples are probably clumsy and naive, but you got the idea. Ok, these are pretty much all covered here, but these should be mentioned clearly and in marketing spirit at the front page.

I think that these guys do pretty good job with their site: http://symphony-cms.com/ (although many probably disagrees about how great it is to use xslt, but that is what makes it different and they want it to be clear)

[ryan]

These are some great ideas, thank you for your thoughts here. I definitely agree about more articles, tutorials and full site examples. My plan is to continue writing as much as I can as time allows, and kind of split that time between coding PW and writing stuff about it (whether in the forum, articles, emails, etc.). As you mentioned, we also need is to get more people writing about it. I was really thrilled to see the article that @almonk wrote last week. I know that @jimyost has also been working on some tutorials, and they were looking really good last time I checked. I need to check in with him again and see how it's coming along with those and if he needs any help. I figured we would launch an articles/tutorials section to the site so that I can post and/or link to these articles and tutorials as they are created.

Regarding the processwire.com site design and copy, I think what you are saying makes sense. What you see with the site is basically the result of needing to do something quickly, so it's not designed, worded and refined in the same manner that I would do for one of my clients. (All the time is put into the software rather than the site). In addition, I'm my own worst client–I don't like to talk up anything I do... whatever ability I have to market and communicate for my clients doesn't translate as well to my own stuff. So I end up with workable but much more restrained-and-quick solutions than I would produce for others (as evidenced by my own site and this one). But ProcessWire is no longer just my project; it's now our project, and anyone's project; so I'm hoping I'll be able to use less restraint in marketing as we move forward. Most of the copy on the site was written before the software was released, and I didn't really know if anyone would be interested in it at that time. But after only a few months of being out there, I think the response and interest has been fantastic ... we're on to something here and should bring it to the next level.

By the way, the copy points that you wrote up as examples were great! Want to write some copy? It's always funny to me that half the people that ask to excuse their wording because they are "not a native English speaker" are able to write better English than most native English speakers.

I was particularly impressed by the symphonycms site you mentioned. They appear to have done a nice job with the design, content and flow of that site.

I have some thoughts on how to bring PW to the next level, and that involves more collaboration. I struggle a bit with time as I try to balance my work time between client work and ProcessWire work. There's so much that I want to do, but I can't always do it as quickly as I'd like because of having a full time job running my business (as is the case for many of us). Though I hope one day to make this my primary job, one way or another. I'm committed to the project for the long term either way. I think we're at the stage where the project could really benefit and move to the next level by getting more people directly involved. Antti–you've done a great job of getting involved in the project, as have a few others. Thank you for your contributions! We need more people like you and many others on this forum. I welcome and am enthusiastic about more designers, developers, marketers, writers and others making ProcessWire their project too. Perhaps it would help if I formalized it in a "team" page on the site, so that it would be more official (?). Below is a list of areas where I think we could use help from others.

Marketing and Communications

• ProcessWire.com site design, concept, strategy
  
• ProcessWire.com site content, marketing copy, documentation, etc.
  
• Design of marketing graphics, like "powered by ProcessWire" image(s) people can optionally put on their site
  
• Marketing and communications with or on other sites and social networks
  
• On-site or off-site tutorials, articles, examples, etc.
  
• Design, maintenance, distribution of regular ProcessWire e-mail newsletters
  

ProcessWire.com site development

• Site features like robust "sites running PW" directory
  
• Site features like robust "modules & plugins" directory
  
• Maintaining directory of bug reports/known issues, feature requests, roadmap items.
  

Project Management

• Help with general project management
  
• Help building and managing a team around the project
  

Core Development

• PW core development, PW module development (whether core or 3rd party)
  
• Help with identifying and fixing bugs in PW and submitting updates, pull requests, etc.
  
• Quality-assurance in PW code: finding better, faster or more efficient ways to code things, and submitting updates/pull requests.
  

Site Profiles and 3rd party modules

• Designing and building new downloadable site profiles
  
• Designing and building a mobile-friendly site profile example
  
• Continue creating new 3rd party modules (as many have already done)
  

Language support

• PW admin translations and updates (when we reach that point)
  
• Testing and expertise with i18n and l10n
  

Forums and Support

• Forum administration and keeping things spam free, organized and making sure everyone is welcome. People should always feel comfortable asking dumb questions in the PW forums, and I'd like PW to have the friendliest community of any CMS.
  
• Helping with support questions in the forum (especially when it grows a lot larger).
  
• Maintaining FAQs on the processwire.com site or forums
  

That's just what I can think of right now. What other things should be added to this list?

I also want to acknowledge several of you have already helped with many of these items too, so want to thank you for that.

[apeisa]

I have some thoughts on how to bring PW to the next level, and that involves more collaboration. I struggle a bit with time as I try to balance my work time between client work and ProcessWire work. There's so much that I want to do, but I can't always do it as quickly as I'd like because of having a full time job running my business (as is the case for many of us).

I think you are doing great job and keeping amazing development speed with Processwire: I don't remember even single forum post / email that you would have ignored - and you are doing this on top of client work & family. And I think the speed how fast processwire evolves is a very good one. Thinking how much have happened since January: upcoming 2.1 feels & works very well (and there is some pretty major changes compared to 2.0). Not to mention all the small fixes and improvements...

Though I hope one day to make this my primary job, one way or another. I'm committed to the project for the long term either way. I think we're at the stage where the project could really benefit and move to the next level by getting more people directly involved. Antti–you've done a great job of getting involved in the project, as have a few others. Thank you for your contributions! We need more people like you and many others on this forum. I welcome and am enthusiastic about more designers, developers, marketers, writers and others making ProcessWire their project too.

Yes, I agree with this. I think there are many silent followers also, since many people how joins this forum seem to have developed quite a lot with processwire. And that makes totally sense - it usually takes months to find time to try new software, and even more time to find good real projects for them. And we are fighting on a crowded space: there are quite a many php based content management systems out there

And thanks for the compliments. I am also (and the company where I am working) very committed and will definitively do our best for processwire.

Perhaps it would help if I formalized it in a "team" page on the site, so that it would be more official (?).

I like that idea, maybe not yet - but next autumn maybe? Also - creating even an association to support the development could be good idea from the early on (not yet, but maybe starting 2012?). It doesn't hurt to make things look little bit bigger than they actually are.

ProcessWire.com site development

• Site features like robust "sites running PW" directory
  
• Site features like robust "modules & plugins" directory
  
• Maintaining directory of bug reports/known issues, feature requests, roadmap items.
  

I think one thing that is needed is some kind of news/blog section. Now the site feels static - it doesn't feel vibrant. Only thing that is moving is forum - the site should be also active and at least few people creating news.

I would be very interested to take part in bringing this site to next level, as a collaboration project. We just need right time for that - and I think that would be right after 2.1 and lang support (2.2?). Here are some great designers on forums (almonk, adamkiss, probably many others too).

Site Profiles and 3rd party modules

• Designing and building new downloadable site profiles
  
• Designing and building a mobile-friendly site profile example
  
• Continue creating new 3rd party modules (as many have already done)
  

I think this is one of the most important things right after we get little more popular. We can do a lot to support this kind of progress: Maybe donation buttons for developers, right from processwire.com module download page? Possibilities to co-sponsor module development ("I need this kind of module and I am willing to pay")? Partner network (these freelancer & agencies work with Processwire)?

Also - installation profiles will be important. "How to create a blog?" - well, install "blog profile" and see how it is done. "How to create product catalog / portfolio?" - well, install "portfolio profile" and see how it is done.

I think we already have here great product and lot's of talented people on board. Also, many things are in better shape than most os-projects ever get: things like good and pretty comprehensive documentation, common place to share ideas (this forum), newsletter (although not yet active) etc...

This is also good topic to tell that our company (www.avoine.fi) is co-sponsoring the language support development this summer (for 3000$), so that Ryan can give it little bit more time from client work. We are also looking for other opportunities whenever we can to help processwire grow. We are currently hosting about 200 sites on our old platform, and looking to create many many sites on top of pw. Also - we are committed to open source all the stuff that we can.

[Adam Kiss]

So many things to react to... Oh well. First of all, I'm not sure if forums is the ideal medium to talk about this, but after all, PW is really open source, if we talk possible strategies in opened forums

My plan is to continue writing as much as I can as time allows, and kind of split that time between coding PW and writing stuff about it (whether in the forum, articles, emails, etc.).

I think this is really tied with the page design; You said that this website was design in oh-so-quick manner, and I think it's quite nice (I especially adore the color combination). I think the right thing to do [regarding website] is to prepare website focused on the modern designers/agencies:

• Create modern, goal-oriented website
  
• Prepare all information sections with future in mind
  
• Compile all existing information, how-to's and tutorials in one big pile of information
  
• Sort that pile out into meaningful resources part
  
• Instead of current 'API' documentation, create object-oriented resources and programmers-oriented documentation
  
• Prepare for future: all sections you are 'dreaming' of, so you can easily add information
  

You see, there is (i think) quite a lot of information available, even in comparison with few of the seasoned open source projects . So it actually comes to creation of welcoming visual & informational design; Then you/we cab push this project forward, into opensourcecms.com and such – I think it's more important to let the people know this project grows and goes ahead, rather than have all the section already filled with information.

That's all I have to say to this matter right now; also, I apologize for any mistakes, I'm going away during weekend and I'm thinking about four things every moment.

[ryan]

Antti, thank you for all the kind words. Excellent ideas. In addition to a news/blog section, I'm thinking I should put together something that pulls the most recent posts from the forum and provides links to them on the homepage (and places throughout the site).

I like that idea, maybe not yet - but next autumn maybe? Also - creating even an association to support the development could be good idea from the early on (not yet, but maybe starting 2012?). It doesn't hurt to make things look little bit bigger than they actually are.

I agree on the timeline. The association idea is interesting, and seems like a good idea... it's something I'd not thought of before, but it looks like this is type of organization used by Drupal (http://association.drupal.org/about). Looking at some other projects, I've not been able to figure out exactly what type of organization they are, but I may not be looking in the right places. This association idea seems like a good one for any project, and I think we should go in this direction.

I would be very interested to take part in bringing this site to next level, as a collaboration project. We just need right time for that - and I think that would be right after 2.1 and lang support (2.2?). Here are some great designers on forums (almonk, adamkiss, probably many others too).

Thanks, I think this would be a great collaboration. I think after 2.1/2.2 (as you mentioned), PW will look very good in feature-to-feature comparisons of other large cms projects (for those that are looking for that), and this will definitely be a good time to really push forward on the marketing, site design and features.

I think this is one of the most important things right after we get little more popular. We can do a lot to support this kind of progress: Maybe donation buttons for developers, right from processwire.com module download page? Possibilities to co-sponsor module development ("I need this kind of module and I am willing to pay")? Partner network (these freelancer & agencies work with Processwire)?

All great ideas that we should pursue in the site upgrades. Commercial module development is something that I already do for my clients (when they have specific needs), and I think it's something that is good to support with other developers and people needing development.

This is related, but also off on a tangent and something I've been thinking about for the future. Our target markets are web designers and developers. This market is a group of people that are employed by their ability to create things that ultimately gets managed and presented by the CMS. Their reputation is on the line with every deliverable they provide to their clients, and so they must place a lot of trust in the products they work with. I think this is why many designers are so high on ExpressionEngine, because there is support guaranteed by a transaction and a company. But EE the software and EE the business model are not my cup of tea. I have used it and think a lot of designers use it only because it's familiar and they don't know any better. I only bring up EE because there now appears to be a lot of crossover with their audience and ours. I would like to find some way for designers/developers to have that confidence level in ProcessWire and know that they (and their clients) are supported.

I think the best way to provide this is probably by offering paid support contracts for those that want it, but I don't really know. I think we're doing a good job of providing support in this forum and that's all that most people will need. Even though we're just a small community right now, I know we'll be able to continue to do that as it gets larger too.  I also want people developing major commercial, big-brand and high-profile sites to also choose ProcessWire (this is the best marketing), and I'm thinking the insurance of a support contract will really be a point in PW's favor.

Does anyone have any other ideas of how we might best support this target market and offer them a level of comfort and confidence that they can't find with other open source projects? One of the reasons ProcessWire exists (out of many reasons) is because I've fixed countless hacked sites implemented by other developers running on other people's software (hello WordPress, Drupal, OpenX). I don't have as much comfort as I'd like to support another open source product for my clients.  And I didn't want to my reputation with my clients to have that liability placed upon it. Despite my like of the support options behind EE and it's plugins, EE is proprietary, problematic and not something I enjoy developing a site in... so that was out after a couple tries. I have a ton of confidence in ProcessWire. Beyond this forum, how can we best support it? I think any commercial support options might require a team of us in different time zones in order to provide quick online response around the clock. Just ideas, but something to think about as the project grows.

Also - installation profiles will be important. "How to create a blog?" - well, install "blog profile" and see how it is done. "How to create product catalog / portfolio?" - well, install "portfolio profile" and see how it is done.

Installation profiles and themes are definitely key. I had a friend that needed to put together a quick site and didn't really have a budget for it. We just installed the default PW site, replaced the logo, and in 10 minutes he had something he could work with and put in his own content, images and pages. Not what I'd recommend for most, but it seemed like a good fit in that instance. It also speaks to the value of ready-to-go install profiles... they can be huge time savers in the right instances. For install profiles, blog, as you mentioned, is probably the first one we should start with.

This is also good topic to tell that our company (www.avoine.fi) is co-sponsoring the language support development this summer (for 3000$), so that Ryan can give it little bit more time from client work. We are also looking for other opportunities whenever we can to help processwire grow. We are currently hosting about 200 sites on our old platform, and looking to create many many sites on top of pw. Also - we are committed to open source all the stuff that we can.

I am very thankful to you and Avoine for your support of ProcessWire!

Thanks,

Ryan

[ryan]

Create modern, goal-oriented website

Prepare all information sections with future in mind

Well stated. This actually sounds a lot better than what I was thinking (a retro, indecision-oriented site without future in mind).  I'm complimenting your buzzword ability.

Compile all existing information, how-to's and tutorials in one big pile of information

Do you mean moving some of the tutorials we've posted in the forums to be in a permanent section of the site? I think this is a good idea. Some of this stuff gets lost in the forums, but really deserves a prominent place in the documentation.

Instead of current 'API' documentation, create object-oriented resources and programmers-oriented documentation

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you mentioned above, but think I might understand what you are getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong--something like: documentation for developing sites in PW that's separate from documentation on extending PW (like building modules)?

You see, there is (i think) quite a lot of information available, even in comparison with few of the seasoned open source projects . So it actually comes to creation of welcoming visual & informational design;

Right on, I agree. Thanks for your feedback. We are now up to 1552 posts.

[Adam Kiss]

Well stated. This actually sounds a lot better than what I was thinking (a retro, indecision-oriented site without future in mind).   I'm complimenting your buzzword ability.

It's not buzzwords if you have something in mind with them; If the goal is to create website described by them rather than say them a lot

Do you mean moving some of the tutorials we've posted in the forums to be in a permanent section of the site? I think this is a good idea. Some of this stuff gets lost in the forums, but really deserves a prominent place in the documentation.

Almost. I thought, that in sake in having some system in chaos, we must go through forums and compile on-site tutorials and how-tos from the answers in this forums, without regard to what forum/topic they were in before – you might find 'tutorializable' how-tos in faq section, in general support, etc.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you mentioned above, but think I might understand what you are getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong--something like: documentation for developing sites in PW that's separate from documentation on extending PW (like building modules)?

No. What I had in mind are two separate sections of the website – tutorials, where you talk about 1., principles [first chapters] and small/big tutorials examples [latter chapters], which do not describe the 'how it works', but rather 'how can you achieve this' – 'object-oriented' was typo on my side, I had 'goal-oriented' [again those buzzwords] in mind. Imagine current 'documentation' as first chapters in the 'resources' section, and that compiled tutorials from forums as the latter sections.

Also, the current documentation should be shortened, with links to what I called 'programmer-oriented' documentation, which should be more aimed at programmers & describing modules and 'how-it-works' stuff without describing why we did it this way [imagine flash documentation, or php documentation]

Adam

[almonk]

I'd be more than happy to help out with redesigning the 'promo' site for Processwire.

I did a little one pager for the CMS we developed at the studio I work at (http://slices.withassociates.com/). Perhaps Processwire might benefit from something similar.

Also, on the subject of updating docs etc. The current docs are fantastic, considering how young the project is, but obviously there's always room for improvement. I particularly like the new Sproutcore 'Guides' section here: http://guides.sproutcore.com/ - again, perhaps PW might benefit from lifting and applying this format.

[ryan]

Thanks for your feedback and offer to assist -- lets plan to keep in touch as we get closer to that time. The sproutcore guides look to be an interesting format, good link.

[Adam Kiss]

Here is little something I've been playing lately with.

http://adamkiss.deviantart.com/#/d3h6i1q or http://forrst.com/posts/WiP_ProcessWire_homepage_full_view-DQD

As there is mentioned in the comment, I already some stuff I would realing and/or change.

• Adjust spacing a little to keep it a bit lighter
  
• News and footer need some more love
  
• Maybe 14px font for body copy wasn't the best idea
  

Also, news center should put short news, blog & releases/release info in one place, just the way the knowledge base should keep introduction, tutorials, documentation and other stuff at one place. I have layout for both of them in mind already, I just need some time off before reiterating

[ryan]

Very cool Adam! I really like where you are going with this. This is a huge improvement, and I'm really honored that you did this. I particularly like your information structure and the way the page grabs you. There is a lot of good thinking and organization here, and this is a very active and compelling homepage. Thank you for your efforts here! I'll go through each part with some questions and comments.

Masthead:

Nice looking masthead and navigation. Wondering if it also needs a download link (for other pages in the site)? I like the underline under 'why processwire' but not so sure about the one in 'home'. What is 'knowledge base'? Do you have any thoughts on placement of a search engine box whether here or somewhere else?

Feature Area:

This really draws me in. We probably need to come up with a different headline (or use this one in a group of rotating headlines), but I like the focal point you've created with it. I like the pink background, but know it's a risky color with small type on top of it... what do others think? Love the download button right there. The screenshots are great, but not yet sure about the vignetting on them. I wonder about possibilities for video here... though screenshots may lend to a better overall page look + feel, what do you think? I like that you are integrating the Mahalia font into other parts of  the design. My opinion is the Mahalia may benefit from being smaller in the headline, and slightly bigger in the download button.

Content Area:

I enjoyed your copy writing. This content area flows very nicely. I think this is right on. The Item of the Day is a great addition, thought might like it to be "Featured Plugin Module" or something like that. Might like it's headline on top of it (rather than inside) to optimize the space within.

Footer:

Every section of the page draws you in and the footer is no exception. But that footer might like a little more vertical room. The PW logo and official tagline over on the right looks a bit lonely–might prefer it anchored with your 3rd column

Other:

Very minor, but I think there may be possibly too many font sizes in the page? I like the grid you've carried through top to bottom, and wondering what you think about bringing the top nav into that grid (for it's left edge to line up with column 2)?

There's so much to like about what you've put together here. It does feel pretty consistent with the brand that's already going and I wonder about the possibility of putting something like this as the new homepage sooner rather than later (before redoing the rest of the site). I'm extremely picky and you've really impressed me with your work. Our creative director (Karen) is also applauding right now.

[apeisa]

I agree: very good work! I also liked your copywriting a lot - especially the third news item is diamond (also - I wan't to test Almonk's "mummy module" )

I really like the color scheme (and bold usage of pink!). I agree with Ryan that typo on the pink area is too small, but I think that there is also too much text - so less text there and bigger font: problem solved.

My only concern is that site feels little bit packed: it would benefit with more white space. What came to my mind is to drop "latest news" block beneath the "What makes pw special" area. So there would be clear vertical stop after the four main features, and below that all the "active stuff", like "item of the day", "twitter" and "news". This would be more towards marketing for first time visitors, but would also give clear picture about the active community behind the project.

Nitpicking: I do not like the usage of mahalia font - I first looked the screen on my mobile and I was thinking that it rendered the picture wrong. I do like the font, but I would like to see spacing between the words.

Overall, very good looking and well formatted site! Good job!

[apeisa]

• Adjust spacing a little to keep it a bit lighter
  
• News and footer need some more love
  
• Maybe 14px font for body copy wasn't the best idea
  

I actually didn't read any of these So actually, just ignore my nitpicking and keep going on this way!

[Adam Kiss]

Thanks guys, I'm very glad you two [and Karen!] liked it, I just hope now Almonk won't do something much better [although PW would profit from it, I would be very sad ]

Regarding your comments, many of those were mentioned also on the Original forrst snap, so I'll reply there, except:

Nice looking masthead and navigation. Wondering if it also needs a download link (for other pages in the site)?

It might need it

What is 'knowledge base'?

Let me reply with my original post

Also, news center should put short news, blog & releases/release info in one place, just the way the knowledge base should keep introduction, tutorials, documentation and other stuff at one place. I have layout for both of them in mind already, I just need some time off before reiterating

Do you have any thoughts on placement of a search engine box whether here or somewhere else?

My original reasoning was that it needs to be on the knowledge base template only, but the site might actually profit from having it on every site. I will think this through.

We probably need to come up with a different headline (or use this one in a group of rotating headlines), but I like the focal point you've created with it.

And here I thought you'll know temporary texts when you see them.

I wonder about possibilities for video here... though screenshots may lend to a better overall page look + feel, what do you think?

I had play button over the screenshots in mind, which would bring some overlayed video – either via some lightbox or it could animate from the screenshot. Of course, I'm an idiot and although I thought about it like six times, I forgot to add it.

I enjoyed your copy writing.

Well, I know all of you

This content area flows very nicely. I think this is right on. The Item of the Day is a great addition, thought might like it to be "Featured Plugin Module" or something like that. Might like it's headline on top of it (rather than inside) to optimize the space within.

I'm actually not sure about the flow. I know the rhythm is a little fucked up [more about why on the forrst], but I still need to think through what on the homepage would PW benefit most from.

Every section of the page draws you in and the footer is no exception. But that footer might like a little more vertical room. The PW logo and official tagline over on the right looks a bit lonely–might prefer it anchored with your 3rd column

"Oh god, I need to go away to do sports in ten minutes. I want to have it online by then. Quick, some footer."

–me, when doing footer. I had quite a feeling in mind, but the technical details like spacing and rhythm (again) need some some.

Very minor, but I think there may be possibly too many font sizes in the page?

It's for of them, and I don't see how could I use less of them. But I will work on the typography, that's for sure

• 
   
• Avenir – the main headline font
   
• Maha...lao or something – to have the same feeling as logo does
   
• Lucida Grande – main body font
   
• Georgia Italic – used in body, so the Maha...lao effect can be carried through the rest of the page. Also, if use the tagline and the download button as images, we don't have to include the Maha...lao font
  

*– Maha...lao is the additional PW font, but I can't remember it's fucking name.

Oh, Antti, you're gladly ignored. No, your suggestions I had mostly on mind already, I just can't work on one design for more then 3-5 hours, otherwise I go nuts.

[ryan]

Let me reply with my original post

What I mean is that I don't understand the term 'knowledge base'  enough to have a sense of what I'm going to get before I click there. It sounds like a term Microsoft would use. Just wondering if there might be some other terminology or organization to avoid the 'knowledge base' encyclopedic black hole. How about just 'Docs' or 'Using ProcessWire' or something like that?

And here I thought you'll know temporary texts when you see them.

Actually I really enjoyed the points you brought up in your temporary text. I think you are hitting the mark on a lot of points, including your headline. I'm just not sure in what order the points should go. I think the primarily headline probably has to hit on a overall concept rather than a specific point. These are what I see as the overall concepts:

• Simple interface to powerful tools (kind of like Google's concept)
  
• Develop your sites more quickly and easily while having fun (kind of like jQuery's concept)
  
• Manage and develop your sites your way – ProcessWire works the way you do
  

Obviously I'm not a copywriter, so these are just concepts not wording.

I had play button over the screenshots in mind

This sounds perfect.

I'm actually not sure about the flow. I know the rhythm is a little fucked up [more about why on the forrst], but I still need to think through what on the homepage would PW benefit most from.

I don't think there is a problem with the flow. I think it's just a matter or getting all the sentence/paragraph copy the same size and maybe compartmentalizing the sidebar a little more (if you think it needs it). So there may be a little bit of a horizontal flow in the bodycopy area to the sidebar that others are reacting to, but I'm not sure I see it (the flow made sense to me at first viewing). I suspect that reinforcing the sidebar with a slight background color, border or something will clear that up for anyone that doesn't get the flow at first, but that's up to you to decide if it's necessary.

It's for of them, and I don't see how could I use less of them. But I will work on the typography, that's for sure

I like your font choices for the most part. The instances of Avenir + Mahalia aren't snapping together quite right in the headline and download button, but I can see that would be an easy fix. Either that, or you could just drop the Mahalia and continue about with the Avenir.

I think the main headline and download button can be produced as images. But for everything else, we'll probably have to find a substitute that we can render in HTML (whether using @font-face or typekit, etc, or web-safe fonts). I'm not sure that we can get Avenir as a web font. But I'd like to find some way to carry through your headline styles throughout the rest of the site without having to resort to to any kind of image/flash replacement. While you have a lot of different headline styles on this page, I think it all works. It's only the 2-3 different sentence/paragraph sizes that I wasn't sure about.

I also understand that these are details that really aren't significant at this stage, and you are trying to provide the big picture which I understand and think is great. Lets keep the momentum going when you are available and let me know what I can do to help.

Btw, were you thinking this would be fluid width? It looks like you've designed for that very nicely, but wanted to confirm.

[apeisa]

This one is actually 1,501st, so congrats us!

In few days we have 3500 posts, so pretty amazing activity growth here. Thanks for all new and old members!

[ryan]

I echo that sentiment–thanks to everyone here!

[Soma]

Congratulations on 5000 Posts!!! 170 Users! 

[formmailer]

Wow, I can't believe we got up to that many posts so quickly. Then I just looked at my post count and see I account for more than a 3rd of them...   :-\

And Ryan doesn't account for more than a 3rd longer, actually just under a 3rd now.

Congrats to Ryan and the PW community.

/Jasper

[ryan]

That's great! Seems like we just hit the 4k mark, and now we're at 5k. It makes me really happy when I hear people tout one of the main benefits of ProcessWire being the community. That's really encouraging, and speaks to the great group of people here. A couple people had emailed me a year or so ago that I should setup a forum (jbroussa, Adam and one or two others?). All my experiences with forums had been that I set them up for clients and they posted a few messages and then it went dormant. So I thought it would be the same thing here. I couldn't have been more wrong! Amazing that we've got more than 5k posts here in less than a year. I hope we can keep things growing even faster, and always let me know anytime you guys think there's anything we should do to encourage growth here. I'm really not an expert with forums, so always let me know anything I can do on this end to make the experience better.