Joss

hehe ... is that a poke at my short and concise posts???

Oh, please - don't introduce WillyC to the concept of Finnish compound words!

This was my point above. For such a system to be successful it is vital to have active mods that can do some cross posting, even if it is just a post that says "interesting conversation on German forum about indexing - get your dictionaries out" This does take a lot of management though and there is no tech workaround or anything clever - it is boots on the ground. There is another argument that says that you just keep the forums in one language - but that tends to do two things: It alienates users, and the better ones wander off and do their own thing. Anyone who knows anything about Joomla may have come across the Brazillian (I think I am right about that) Joomla site that they set up independently. A couple of their main users popped into one of the English forum and it soon transpired that they were having far more intelligent and forward looking conversations than the English speaking developers, and coming up with seriously good solutions to problems - and yet were being completely ignored/overlooked. A big loss to the overall project that.

*whistle whistle whistle.....*

The community issue is separate I think. I am a great believer that, once a community gets big enough so that it is not like a cosy family any more, it should be very separate from the main, promotional site. That means that it might have a common logo and possibly corporate colours, but other than that, its design is aimed at community. In the case of national websites, they would, by definition, be promotional sites (plus direct translated documentation) - they can have their own unique identity, but must follow some basic rules and be approved centrally (as any company with multi offices does). The community site, however, should be one central resource, albeit with language sections. That way, those that are multi lingual would be able to talk on native language forums and others that they can understand all in one place. Or use auto translators to understand posts if needed. But they remain part of the entire community rather than being off in another place entirely. (Note: it is vital, in these sorts of forum, that moderators duplicate important announcement posts across all languages. Time and time again I see this not done, which leaves one community feeling like they are also-rans. Multi lingual communities can work very well, but they need lots of management).

Hmmm, Okay, this is just me thinking, so probably wont make too much sense. Here are some thoughts #### If you search via pages/templates, then you have a potentially complicated search. However, if you search the other direction, so search any table that is an images or cropimages table, then the search is less of a headache. #### We could add a reference to any media upload that is stored in a central table - so basically, we have an images_index table and everytime you upload an image, it puts a reference in that table, including a note as to the first page it was associated with (this is so it can find the file) We are not adding to the fields in any of the images tables, they stay as they are, just duplicating the reference elsewhere for another purpose. This could be done as standard, so that if later on if a person changes how they are working, the references are already there. (Note: it might be useful to have a script that can search everything and create the table if you are adding this to an existing site) ### Images (and other media) are different from other data in that they have an associated file. Since these are all kept in one place (assetts), these are easily sourced. There is already the file manager plugin that does this. ### There is an issue with deleting a page and therefore deleting the image. May be that should change - the image file stays and just becomes an orphan. If another page uses it, then it gets a new mummy! (sorry, bit sick?) ### I don't think we need to add an extra field for categorisation - just be able to upload an image to a page that is categorised. So, if you upload to the page you are on (say a blog entry), then the category of the image is, implicity, that page. However, if you have created a library, and from the blog entry you are able to remotely upload an image to a page in that library, then the category will be implicitly that library page (and its hierarchy and anything else associated). That seems to be the easiest way to do this. You can do that manually at the moment. Create a library for your images with a top level hidden page and then a tree beneath that. Choose a page in that library and upload an image Save and Close Go to your "blog" page Open the image field and find the associated library page Select the image. So, instead of that, you would Go to your blog page On your image field, you have a choice (radio buttons or toggle)Load Image to Current page Load image to Library (either can be set as default) If a single destination has been pre-selected in the field settings for the Library choice, then you are ready to go If a choice of destinations have been preselected, then when you select the library choice, you are automatically asked to browse to the destination (or whatever is the neatest and simplest way of presenting this) Drag and drop your image(s) and use it. This way, images are all stored just as they are at the moment - it is just the action of storing them that is changed. The one complication is the Thumbnails module (which I love) It would be nice to have this working the same way including the thumbnails. It is probably not difficult to do, actually, but care would have to be taken with how the thumbnails module is set up (what thumbnail settings) so that it matches the page you are using. Well, the admin should be left with SOME work to do!! And goodness knows how that would associate with TinyMCE (which it doesnt at present) Okay, all kinds of bits there .... sorry!

Hey, I have no issue with designing something Dumbed Down - I do it all the time. Actually, I have already half done it on my overall demo site (http://pwdemo1.stonywebsites.co.uk/) That already has a category system in place for products and some other useful bits. It is wonderfully dumb!

@Ryan - trust me, you still see that argument. Wurm Online is built with Java, and the developers continually point out that the big weak link is the PHP website. Which is completely unfair - the twice they got hacked was because they had either not updated in ages or because they let someone install something stupid that opened a great big hole.

I don't think this is an either/or argument so much as "what are you designing today?" (Apologies to Mr Gates) If we take your villa site as an example, each set of images has a very specific ownership paper trail - they belong to a specific villa and therefore, quite logically, a specific page. Even if you then have a generic promotional page that re-uses some of those images, it is reusing them based on them belonging to a specific entry. An e-commerce shop is mostly the same case. However, if you take my Dog-Blog (http://www.pebblesthepuppy.co.uk - you are permitted to say "ahhh" when you get there), although initially the images are uploaded in relation to a specific post, I have a great need to re-use images in other posts, without wanting the association to the original post. Thankfully, if you delete a post, you don't lose the images in WP and the new WP media uploader makes access to images across the board much easier. Moving onto another type of site, a news-magazine style site, then many of the images you use would be from a general library because they would be reused on a regular basis. On a game site that I ran, I could use any particular screen shot ten or twelve times - in tutorials, promotions, press-releases, general illustration and so on. Your average business site is a bit of a mix. Although most pages are pretty much "static" (as in they are not related to a series of pages like a blog), the entire site might have elements from all the above. A blog, a product/services catalogue, staff profiles, portfolios. Any and all of those may want to steal from each other - a news item might want to show a product picture, a product might want to show a picture of the staff member that designed the product, a press release might want to repeat the nice opening picture of the industrial estate.... And so on. Just to make it more awkward, if the product changed spec, you will probably want to "replace" the image and have that effect everything - without having to FTP into the back end. All of these are quite legitimate uses of media. What I suspect we need (and I think this is part of that fine-tuning of any software that is needed to make it attractive to a broader market) is a plugin that allows how the images are used to be customised. So, if in one content type you want people to upload an original, then that is all they will be able to do. If on another your don't want that, but only to use something from an existing library/page, then you should be able to set that. Oh, and I think the Thumbnails functionality should be part of this rather than as a separate plugin. After that, it is a case of sensible management by the admin. If they restrict an image to just a page (that may risk being deleted) then that is their problem. If they would rather have "image library" pages so this is not an issue, then it is up to them to set their site up that way. Either way, I think we should keep the system where an image is part of a page and not have a separate, disassociated image system. After all, if you create a library around pages you can create categories, years, tags, all kinds of nice things - if it aint broke, dont fix it. But that does not mean you cant expand on it so, like the rest of ProcessWire, it allows the admin to create and run the kind of site they want in the way they want.

Yes, searching for images is different to searching for articles where you really want to search all fields at the same time. With images, you are looking for something specific. In the News CMS I designed 13 years ago (eek), one of the things we did was make the images work the same as they do in a newspaper library. So, every image had file name location category (images had a distinct category system) description and quality (BW, Grainy, pro/domestic) Image title Image summary Copyright date Source/photographer Notes and Restrictions (Licencing and so on) History (which articles it had been used in) Locked/Available (so images could be used for research only, but not displayed) Now, obviously that is completely over the top for 99% of users, but shows the way images might be stored and how they would therefore be searched. In that old library we had around 5000 (ish) images, and everyone was stored like the above. They were everything from corporate head shots to events to logos to cartoons ... (I only have the cartoons left now), and finding what you wanted was dead easy and the source information meant we had instant contact details if we wanted to see if the photographer/agency had any additional shots. You also have to bear in mind that the vast majority of the shots were film originally and were supplied as prints. So we did not have the meta-data trail you have now. Sorry, that wandered off topic a bit!

Oh, glad you put that explanation - I hadnt gotten as far as working that out. For the moment, I am almost ignoring the module and just putting together a simple catalogue with some listing options. It will use includes for the specific bits of the layout so they can be replaced/changed easily. Or it will end up on the floor as a slightly sticky mess - one or the other.

You could have various sort options. It depends who is using and why. A news type site that would pull images from all over the place would definitely want it categorised somehow (though they would possibly be better off with the idea that I started this post with) A blogger, however, may well want to see their most recent images first, and to hell with the categories. To make it even more complicated, you may want to add search by either file name or description. I suppose the file name search field would be autocomplete. You could make this overly complicated, but as long as all the options are in a discrete list/hidden tab, something, then it would not be a major problem..... possibly.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was playing with both OpenCart and Magento last year and the templating system was bewildering - I could not get my head around have the two sides of it in completely different parts of the directory tree.

Hi Luis - that kind of works both directions. I am tending to default to bootstrap at the moment as I am also trying to get my head round what is possible. Also, to be fair, I am not good enough that I would be very happy with something I did being pushed as a perfect solution - more of a rather rough starting point!

Another variation to the module could be a "show all images" link. Rather than navigate to a particular page, this would just retrieve all images linked to any page, with the current page's images the first on the list. (the rest could be by date or alphanumerical or something. This would need to be paginated/ajaxified (or a mix) for sites that have a huge number of images.

Yes, I have to admit that I haven't quite understood Ryan's code fully - does he come from a planet with a more advanced civilisation than you and me? Also, for the profile I would be tempted to do a responsive template since that is more or less the default on WP now (and other systems). Just a very simple header, body, sidebar system. Not very difficult to make it so the sidebar is either left or right with a switch in a "settings" page. Also, images: http://processwire.com/talk/topic/2573-images-module-source-page/

Well caught! I am taking a slightly different approach, using this as a basis: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html Except I will replace the bootstrap carousel with a parallax system I have been messing with: http://pwdemo1.stonywebsites.co.uk/ And .... Well, not sure after that!

HI Luis Apparently, this works well on touch too - the chap addresses that on his site. I think I am inheriting an old iphone next month (the family is all upgrading, so the iphone 3 will be unused). So I will be able to test this stuff more then. The problem with click as opposed to hover with ProcessWire is that it breaks Ryan's natural page tree system because you cannot access the parent.

There are two issues with the normal bootstrap menu: 1. It doesn't hover 2. The "parent" is not linkable (it is too busy doing the dropdown) So, here is the solution: http://cameronspear.com/blog/twitter-bootstrap-dropdown-on-hover-plugin/ Basically, this script replaces the data-toggle with data-hover Without the data-toggle, the parent becomes clickable and with the data-hover it now drops down on hover!! Magic!

That would be nice! Just thinking aloud here: ShopWire? Goes nicely with: BlogWire BusinessWire IntraWire NewsWire (oops, pun) FanWire and then the frameworks: BootWire FoundationWire etc

ooh - Bootstrap is really good for that sort of thing. I may go and play. (Er, after I do all the other things on my growing list of "playing with ProcessWire" items.)

Another post for you to move when you move your ones: Both the Germans and the French have been pretty active over the years developing stuff - going back a bit, I remember coming across a few interesting items for which there was no English version at all. Java has been particularly popular at verious stages. So yes, there is very definitely a market. It requires more than simply a translation, however. We used to do huge amounts of multi-lingual corporate work at the studios, and I was constantly reminded by voiceovers when translating "in my country, we would not have made this video like this in the first place." So, some thought should be put to both the presentation style and the "sell" so that it is truly aimed at a country and is not just another language version that, to be honest, can be seen as insulting. In English speaking countries we are amazingly insensitive to this sort of thing!

Yes, that could work, though using your existing system of selecting parents pages or specific pages would do it, I think. Interesting idea to add user bookmarks, though that probably should be optional since the admin may want to define a very specific location(s) for what ever reason. On the second one, yes I see what you mean. Since basically, it would be uploading on behalf of another, predefined page, rather than the one you are on. I suppose there is a bit of a cheat here in the fact that the upload part of the field is being "borrowed" from another page/template - for that one action you are effectively editing another page remotely.

@apeisa Yes, as far as I know you are right - the regulations only come into force if you are storing card data. I ought to have a look at your module, me thinks! Joss

@Pete As an extension to a tutorial, perhaps supplying a profile That is as close as possible would be interesting. MInd you, I suppose Ryans blog profile is not far off already.