lisandi

What is the best way to manage larger amounts of constantly necessary static data. I.e. Countries and there depending states and the cities in those states with their postal codes which needs to also translatable into different languages. I.e. Germany, Deutschland, Allemagne, ประเทศเยอรมัน North Rhine Westphalia, Nordrhein Westfalen, ... Cologne, Koeln ,... ... Or Mr., Miss., Mrs., Or Other clearly defined lists of static data i.e for Taxes or Currencies, which would be used over and over again in several site I.e in Search forms, mail forms, user profiles, shops, realestate lists, .... All this data won't change over years. One way would be to create pages the processwire way and than search for them an make a search so that a parent shows only the subpages assigned to him. What about scalability? I.e if you have clearly defined job descriptions - about 30 TSD. Is there already a module taking care of such kind of static data which probably get much better stored as is in a table direct in the database? Imho it does not really make sense to create for each item a page. What is your opinion? How do you handle that static data in your sites? Thanks Andi

Nobody and especially not myself was talking about changing the core. As a TYPO3 Developer who developed huge sites without specific coding knowledge since 2002 you know he BIG BIG rule: Never ever touch the core! as otherwise you will losse the possibility to upgrade. The same applies - well applied I need to say as it changed a bit - that all extensions in typo3conf/ext should never be changed. Meanwhile they stor custom extensions which you need to modify i.e. templates there. This Big Good rule is one reason why I at all came to processwire. I am not at all interested in Wordpress or Joomla. Wordpress is interesting because of their designs which means templates - they simply have a lot - the most! I would say. For me Processwire need to have the core like it is but the core developers need to keep it as flexible so that also great website ideas and even a website builder would work in Processwire. As an example take TemplaVoila in TYPO3 which is still the best templating engine around! Very flexible but since Version 4.5 until 6.2 it was always targeted so that it wasn't working anymore or was causing problems as soon as a new core update rolled out. The biggest reason why TYPO3 lost so many people! Good people! Mostly Designers and non coders and some userfriendliness oriented coders who liked TemplaVoila too. --- Like dazzyweb already said the Usability improvement is not a core feature at all at firstplace. There might be some things where the core has to provide hooks or some code but most of the rest will be done by Modules. Modules like BlogModule, SEOModul, GalleryModule, etc... One of those Modules can and will be the page builder. Themes don't need to be design Templates only, they can also have different functionality but to get things like Themeing running you need to have some standards. I guess many of you are already using their standards as they copy site profiles to start new sites and to save a lot of time and charge customers for setting up processwire. In other words you personally probably already have your base set of fields, templates, namings etc. Bringing that on a Community Level and coordinate here the basic settings and you will be able to cooperate and give support even on community leven as a field or template might appear in the same constellation in multiple websites. So for all WEBSITE Interested people some kind of standards would be very very helpful. Best example here is the SEO Module by Nico Knoll. It is using atandards and all people now installing that module will be able to share enhancements and much more based on those standards. The same applies also to the Blog Module and others. On the one hand it might look for some developer as a BOX but actually you are still free to modify and extend it and you will have immediately back your flexibility without loosing the compatibilty with other site owners who se the same module. This enables great support and tutoring! Well, yes you can if you want to! Actually it would be very good to have some case studie about that visible. You don't need to name the customer nor would you need to show a 1 to 1 copy. But some User stories and case studies would give perhaps also other community members and of course also customers who will have a closer look here, new ideas in what might be done with Processwire too. Best example is OpenERP - now Odoo. We set up sites with it since years, but it was very hard to sell as you always needed to connect those great "hidden" not in the public web visible features" to other CMS applications and shops. Now with Odoo it has a website builder and guess what. Because of the website builder which is seemless integrated into all other modules it is much much easier to sell OpenERP. Some people even want to have an OpenERP website only because of that website builder, they don't care about that there is also a CRM, HRM, Accounting and even a POS system available. But from our experience people start with the thing they like - the website builder - and than discover the other stuff step by step and they come back asking to integrate that (it is actually a one click installation each module but most customers want that we do the "click" and not them. In other words with a great viewable tool set of modules - for websites - you could reach out to lots of customers which than order even much more which has nothing to do with the website perhaps. But as long as they don't see anything likewise or can't read about all those intranet offline etc possibilities of an application they will not even ask! Have a look on the webite of Odoo - https://www.odoo.com/ Point one is the website builder , than ecommerce , than blogs and all the rest and it is a long rest, is usually not visible on the web! All this you can install in about 15 Minutes! and start working. You can even try it on their demo accounts for one months and itis worth doing it and learning from it in terms of usability and nonweb experiences. Until now there is no comparisson on the php market! Well with Processwire we don't need to be able to install stuff so fast as usually you have much more time than that, but the way that product "Odoo" gets presented to the public is very different to what processwire is doing. Here at Processwire even the website is talking only about websites and framework - also TYPO3 or Drupal are Frameworks by the way. Adding and writing more about those non web related things would be very helpfull also for the community to enhance their own businesses with similar nonweb applications. I really hope to see a section about that on the processwire website and also those texts I posted before which talk only about websites need to be adjusted accordingly, which is easy possible and useful if there are examples. You might ask your customer Pete to present it to others anonymously. Often customers like also that you will post it as it is also a good way of advertising themselves and they somehow support an openSource system as people will read about their solution and than come up with their own ideas and probably even contact you at first place to make their dream application to become true. There are not "There are too many examples"! If there were so many thanat least some could be posted here. ;-) -- As a next step I would suggest that we split the Forum in a section for web applications and non web applications. And it is also a great meter to see where the needs and focusses are mainly. It will help to group people with the same needs and avoid that someone is not happy about a web discussion. 1. the core is the core which makes all this possible and therfore stays as the core 2. the modules could be also "apps" like the seo module or the blog or gallery module to name only a fiew which provide much more thanonly a field or another icon in the pagetree. 3. Probably there is a way - I am sure there is - to combine features into one module which than provides more webuser friendly pagetree or sorting and structuring of the left column. 4. I hope we will have a section where we can discuss that webusability improvements. The standard of a forum does notat all go down with those discussions which actually help to clarifyu things, visions and even create new visions and ideas. It is the diversity of people and ideas which finally enhances a product from a could be to an IS in reality!

Thanks dazzyweb The problem at Processwire is actually the same as with the hardcore developers in TYPO3. They see the code! And they like to code! And they see thousands of possibilities this code can do - even not even one percent of live examples are available since. .... and they start loosing the connection to the base as they get flying to high in the clouds. The discussion is about Usabillity! NOT about Wordpress and NOT about TYPO3 or Drupal or any other CMS. BUT you can learn form their experiences and way of doing things. I have put up those three screenshots and you see with one view actually what is cluttered. Sorry but it is NOT wordpress or TYPO3. Processwire is missing a way to structure their modules. Moving things around is wasting time if you could simply structure things. Some might ask what we actually are doing here in Thailand. Well we build Packaged solutions for CMS. Which means we try to make not userfriendly things more usable. We do this mainly for agencies in Europe and US who like to build websites with a CMS system as it gets demanded by their customers but who don't like to go all the year long learning curve along to reach their goals. So we build solutions and learn them how to "fly and land things because we make it easy for them to start!" In Processwire we found some very interesting stuff which goes exactly in that direction and it can do often things even much much better than TYPO3 - especially in terms of performance! 1. separated core 2. modules which can be updated with a click 3. Publish unpublish / Hide/Unhide / Delete Pages like we can do also in TYPO3 / even scheduled publishing / 4. Permissions which can be set for each single item allow it or not 5. a Page tree which unfortunately gets gluttered with hidden und admin and many other pages of modules as there is by default noway to display ONLY the really used pages from the frontend. 6. It has Pro Modules which actually only focus on WEB development and websites!!! Here you already see the way actually Processwire is taking -> It won't be the iPhone app or the clever crm system or planer or whatshowever even the code is Soooo flexible and it can do sooo much - sorry for that sarkasm but simply start building up a Reference and Profolio withall those NON web stuff so that we all here can see the real Power of Processwire and that we are not only talking about Visions and Dreams. Please stay in the reality Pete, Joss, Soma and other great developers of Processwire, please realise that in the community are also people who are designers and not coders, who are integrators and no PHP freaks, who are End Users which want to manage their systems etc. Don't exclude them. Writing about "you need to code" and "if you don't know php" ... well sorry, itis contraproductive. I have build websites for UNESCO, East West Center, for Universities, a multilingual multidomain site system for 400 churches and many other bigger and smaller companies and even an offline mobile application we have build, ... All this has been done by good relation ship, good ideas, coorperation with people, contributing with ideas and support, great tutorials, etc. -- You don't need to much php know how at all to be honest, to do it the Montessori way, which means if you work together and not against good ideas and if you like to learn and experiment with new things and are allowed to make mistakes. The best teacher is the one who can tech his students notto need a teacher anymore. This applies also for developers. A good developer can make hist stuff working so that he is actually no more needed. As a result people will come back to him to have also such a great application which makes the developer opsolete. But I actually want to get back to where the thread started and why it has been set up. USABILITY Unfortunately there are actually now 3 different things discussed: 1. Usability 2. Processwire as unlimted Framework 3. "How to be not afraid to let new people and new ideas in" for developers For all three parts we would need to have an extra thread as all three have nothing to do with each other. 1. is the one which should focus on usability, which is also comparing stuff with how it is done in other CMS or applications. We have to learn from each other. 2. I really would like to see that Portfolio referencing all those intranet, Planers, Mobile apps and kitchen sink openers or refridgerator managers. Please don't talk always about things which could be done with a piece of code - come on and give some examples which are NOT webapplications or Intranet applications which are actually often nothing else again than a webapplicatin running on a local server ;-). The huge majority of the modules and even of all the Pro Modules don't focus at all on those applications - they are made to make the web faster and better! -> they are made for websites! 3. This is a difficulty issue I know from my experience already. But it can lead to a very successful relation ship with designers, integrators and people who have NO IDEA about PHP or what you write their in your code. "Inspire to share". Nobody will take away your market shares of non web applications and the market for web applications could accomodate you all - believe me. --- As I see there are Groups of Interests. WEBSITES Kongondo - Gallery Module, Blog Module Nico, Horst, Adrian - Seo Module, Tutorials, One Click Language Install, Process Diagnostics Apeisa - Shop Module and Fredi, Data Import pwFoo - with al kind of FrontendUser related stuff sinmok - Inline Editor and don't forget Ryan with all his Pro Modules and the Collage Plus, DB Backup, PageClone, Upgrade, Profile Exporter ... and so much more stuff and even SOMa with the great ModuleManager Module, Page Edit Soft Lock, Filemanager or Teppo with thevery usefull versioning, Login History, with the right widgets your Dashboard could be a much better starting page like right now Pete. ... sorry for those I have forgotten here now but I am sure there are many more out there the more or less ole purpose of all those great apps is "websites"! and intranet applicationswhich are nothing else then websites running without internet access on a local server. ALL OTHER STUFF THAN WEBSITES: ---- I think everybody has read this before. Do you read anything else than CMS? - Content Management System! The comparison with other CMS actually starts here http://processwire.com/about/why/ and here http://cmssizzle.com/blog/posts/features-matrix/ Well said! What is Proceswire build for? There is not a single word about the Planner and other non website stuff! So lets make End-User much more happier by providing them a website builder like in circleflip and a well structured left panel where nothing needs to be moved around and where a tutorial like nico has started already one which is really great! can focus on and can be enhanced. I think empowering each other would be much much better than splitting up into a web application group which focusses on usability and scalability and speed speed speed of websites and another which tries to get a refridgerator planner working for the electrified home 3000 via intranet. I am not sure who of the ones who don't like to focus on websites actually has read the Roadmap: if not do it. I really like it - it focussed and focusses to enhance the web experience! - Read the comments and you will see that none is about non web applications. In other words please stop trying to stop usefull discussions for usability by telling that PW is so flexible and could do so many other things and that your vision might be to keep it open until your dreams become true, ... please start bringing examples! references and start building up a portfolio so that people who come to Processwire can see the power you are always talking about. --- For the last question I probably open up another thread as it would be great to see someone integrating a website builder like in circleflip into processwire. How much time would it need and how much would it cost so that we can look for sponsors! I believe that this feature would be a real good thing to make things especially also much much easier and more flexible for designers! Such a website builder would help the majority of customers and those are the ones whichlike also to be able to do things by themselves easily and without damaging a system. They like to add another picture beside a text or split things up in columns etc.

Yes Martijn as the customer likes the way the FontawesomePageLabel Module is working much more than the AdminCustomFiles. If he installs FontawsomePageLabel immediately the nice page labels appear in the page tree and it looks really nice while when you install AdminCustomFiles nothing happens and you won't see the nice Page Labels like before. OK you have more fields where you can set things but this is simply to much for the customer, who simply wants to be able to enable or disable those nice looking icons. Thanks for bringing that up as this is actually a great example about how Usability could be lost by to much possibilities. Enable the Page Icons, disable them perhaps even on a perpage base or choose your own one is much more worth the same is with the Page numbering which helps a lot while developing pages or giving support especially when you have multilingual sites with languages you can't read i.e. Thai Chinese Hindi etc. Also here is a plugin and the customer knows how to activate that and for customers who haven't installed it they can easily install and activate it and the numbers are there. If you now take the AdminCustomFile Module the customer simply gets lost. It might can do much much more than all the others but you would need to invest much much more time to achieve that simple task of activating those page icons. If now that admin customs files would have a simple checkbox which than would activate or deactivate those page icons or numbering it would be a great tool in terms of usability. Even better would be an Admin Settings interface where you actually could add all those things on one simple page with a nice overview. KIS - Keep it simple is often better in Terms of usability.

... the matter "PW compared to Joomla, WP, XYZ etc." has been discussed a zillion times. Well than discuss it a zillion and one time!. The fact that even it has been discussed a zillion time and stil people are coming back to the same problematic an themes should actually show you that nothing valuable has happened since! Very sad for things which have been discussed so often. Why is it like this! We had at TYPO3 similar problems as developers and designers and integrators and endusers have often very different oppinons. And some agencies had their very own ideas of getting the big huge cake for them. Result was that thebase broke, good people left, endusers got frustrated etc. - the Image of TYPO3 is about half about what it was before TYPO3 4.5 I would say! It lost a lot! Ignoring peoples opinions results in this - not only at TYPO3! developers are often afraid of loosing their jobs so they want to keep their role as master of the code designers often want to get further but can't as they don't know how to code, so they go back to a more designer friendly system integrators - allronders - mostly want to be simply productive. They don't care so much about the code and also purchase ready made templates to avoid a designer but actually those integrators are the biggest group of promoters of a system at all as they create awareness. end users - well they want to handle their stuff, they like to have all features also in an extensible way and mostly it should not be to difficultto achieve and for sure they don't like that their system would have been developed from scratch all the time i.e. because core stuff had been modified like it happend with joommla and wordpress quite often. --- If all those userfriendliness would have been integrated already than this thread would be obsolete and simply not exist: The first impression still counts a lot! - Compare it - and compare it with your own processwire as ours is already modified!

Hi Teppo I guess actually I am sure that pocesswire wants to be successfull. So simply ask yourself why wordpress and joomla are so successful. 1. They are very easy to setup without any know how what a CMS or PHP or HTML is at all and they are free 2. They have tons of templates Why do they have tons of templates? 1. Because so many people are using it. the newby, the no idea what is PHP Freak and the complete Null in what is a website at all and they all BUY the templates and install them for a quite low price. 2. Because those systems are used by so many people they are very well known and a company owner usually can find someone in his team who has worked one time with either of them - no matter if they liked it or not. But wordpress stands for ease of use. 3. Huge companies are using both systems because of their easyness for newbiees too and those companies actually pay then the development as agencies usually know how to handle wordpress and they can charge good and even expensive prices for them. Even customers who want to have a processwire site often choose a wordpress template they like from themeforest etc. and than want that to be used for their processwire site. In other words Lots of people are using it and spreading the word! 4. People who buy a website usually have no idea how to update or maintain a website, on the other hand they usually don't pay another time for a developer or for maintenance. As a result out of that you will earn very bad reputation as wordpress and joomla is insecure - They are mainly insecure because they don't update! The same would image processwire would get very soon if you make updating difficult. and actually in Processwire it is very very easy to update. It is a simlpe click. In the case an update is not working for sure the site owner will first try to fix the problem himself but than he will contact someone with know how. Which means jobs will come. 5. The cheap, easy to handle and marked as insecure wordpress and joomla is base for a huge market and lots of agencies and developers which tons of jobs every day! Wordpress Theme developer often even tell you that they only work in Wordpress - they have actually no need at all to switch as they have no problems in getting more jobs and of course getting good income. On the other hand Processwire is lacking exactly these easyness even it fullfills lots of the same requirements for a shootingstar in CMS at all. a. it has a one click install more or less - very easy and much easier to handle than a TYPO3 installation b. It has already a core update which works instantly if the folder permissions are right - if the install tool would check and repair or tell users how to repair the permissions than this would ven always work c. it is in deed much more secure than wordpress and joomla. Try to update wordpress or joomla it is way more difficult especially when you have installed custom stuff. d. Themes are completely missing which is simply a nogo for many people. One reason why kay strohbach the developer of typo3-themes started to develop a wordpress theme importer to TYPO3 - having this you can import all themes of Wordpress for TYPO3 and with a simple click you can make usage of thousands I woudl say tenthousands or even hiundredthousands of great looking templates without need of a designer at all to start your site with. This is why wordpress and Joomla are so popular. Making it easy and customer friendly to maintain their own sites is even much better as customers feel like they are the master of ceremony and they will like to come back to the agency which taught suggested using Processwire etc. if they have a problem. e. If processwire could use and integrate wordpress themes like TYPO3 can do in typo3-themes than it would be unbeatable from scratch. When you talk to a customer you could simply let them choose one of those great looking templates which fullfills most of their wishes and than you simply integrate it in front of their eyes and they see what they will get. For sure customers will like that a lot. Should users be able to do mostly of setting up and installing modules by themselves - YES! because it will bring tons of jobs and popularity! I am a cerified Montessori teacher beside running a BOI approved and cerified Company in Thailand. Montessori has one slogan: "Help to do it by myself" Leaders from some companies you perhaps know went to Montessori schools and if you ask them why they are so successful they will tell you it was there Montessori Education. They were motivated and allowed to discover things which already had been discovered. They were allowed to experiment even they know it will end inan failure. etc. Ask the leaders of Google, Amazone, Wikipeadia etc. about it. If now Processwire follows the same idea it would provide their users a prepared surrounding where they actually woudl be able to do mostly by themselves. But the result will be that they will hire YOU and many other agencies who are capable and able to tell them their fascination about Processwire. They really will like that system when they can be Master of them selves and even discover things you probably have discovered already every time when you setup a processwire site. People will be much more willing also to sponsor development for such a system than for a system which only things a developer should be able to handle it. Most developers do one big mistake. They think when they do something in their system so that no other will be able to use it, the customer will come back. False - No - Fact is he will get frustrated as all other Agencies probably will tell him that this has been made by the former dev and is not conform is not working or whats however - so they can get a job. You will loose and Processwire will losse as it will be called soon than as a system which will cuase more and more costs the deeper you get into it - even it could be just the opposite. Make thinks as simple as possible for the endusers and developers AND Endusers will use it and the gadget, Themes and module market will flourish. Processwire will be the third huge CMS on Themeforest overrunning Drupal as a vision. I doubt that PW can ever catch up with Wordpress or Joomla in that point of popularity but it could get very very near to it. Do you wanna have jobs? Good Jobs? Lots of Jobs? Than better delete that sentence completely our of your brain and only dream about it. Make it as your personal goal if you wish. If you market Processwire with that intention you could already start digging the grave for it! and make yourself ready for the burial! Yes - You need to learn from the success of wordpress and joomla if you really want to make processwire used much more. Have a look to drupal. They did what you said the same way. Until Drupal 5. They were good but not as good as they could have been. In 6 Profiles got very popular and drupal got more and more popular and suddenly you had themes appearing on Themeforest - wow. But still they are lacking the translations and the separated core for updating etc. Well meanwhile they learned a lot from the success of Woprdpress and Joomla in Ters of easiness to use and they learned from TYPO3 (also because major former TYPO3 gurus are now top propmoters of drupal) Have a look to drupal 8 and the water for processwire and for TYPO3 and for Wordpress will get a lot of Thinner! TYPO3 core people did NOT learn out of it for years since Kaspar the creator resigned as TYPO3 King from his thrown. Agencies started to try to split up the cake with small success as they lost more and more of their base. There were huge discussions going on abot usability and whatfor TYPO3 shoudl be. Those agencies wanted it for the upper tenthousands etc. but finally the base won. TYPO3-THEMES.org is only one example on how usability got back to TYPO3 and that at least some of the devs learned out of the expereience of a breaking away base and of course also their customers. Most customers moved to wordpress/Drupal/ Contao and Concrete5 as most of them never ever heard about Processwire at all! You need to change that if you want to stay on that market which will be a very good market in future, especially here in South East Asian Countries and China - don't forget China!!! or underestimate it. Better try to get yor feed on that ground as soon as possible! Well it will be another knock out and digging the grave for processwire already. Prepared Surrounding is the successfull path and this peans if you have a list where all thos ideas of developers are listed and available than you ca have much better colaboration or developers, much better coding, much less mistakes and usablity problems as people whoul test it . If you list them in a forum than only a few people will hear about it. The first thing I did actually was looking for all those nice modules which are NOT listed on processwire and found lots of stuff which should be promoted to get listed there and other very interesting stuff which needs simply much more testing and feedback. Some modules I already mentioned here and their developer corrected their mistakes. Without knowing about that they even exist this would never happen. Be as transparent aspossible. Set up a redmine and connect all those githubs to the centrtalized forge redmine and here every agency can have a look. They can make suggestions, they can sponsore , they can work to gether , ..... All this is not available when you exclude people from getting informations about those modules which are not on processwire. A donation button is a very easy task as you only wouldneed to use the paypal donation feature and integrate it and people who want to receive donations for their work would need to write their paypal contact in the module configuration file somewhere. Don't reinvent wheels as most of it is already there and only calls to be used! It is again about usability. Have a look at existing Headers: Pages (Page related stuff) Settings (even things which have nothing to do with settings at all are installed here by default) Access (user, user group and premission related) what about Files: (everything related to filemanaging) Development: (every tool which helps developers and are actually nothing for endusers and this area could be even be deleted later or deactivated) Tools: like diagbostics, Logs, Profile export, CSV IMport, Upgrades, Module manager Modules I would take out and integrate the few stuff into the Module manager Module which is way better! Of course yo can achieve things by moving things around which is actually a very bad thing in terms of tutorials books and support at all. which means it is contraproductive and against popularity of a system! Every time a customer will ask me to help him in his Processwire site I would firstneed to examine their specific structure and look where they have hidden that or that, It would be a waste of time. DASHBOARD - with widgets like an rss feed about the latestproceswire news - new modules - of course security issues etc., perhaps a way to integrate a support via skype etc. - widget 1 - widget 2 etc PAGES - Tree - Find - redirects - Trashman - Recent APPS - Blog - Comments - Images (Image manager) - Gallery manager (kondogo) - Newsletter - Orders - Data Editor - Image Editor (Pixlr) ACCESS - User - User groups - Roles - Dynamic Roles - Permissions ADMINISTRATION - Changelog - Data Archiver - DBBackups - Diagnostics - Export Site profile - Field Change Notifier - Import Pages from CSV - Login History - Logs - Migrator - Modules manager - Upgrades TOOLS - Google Analytics - Heatmap - Link Checker - MailChimp - PwikAnalytics FILES (File management - best woudl be something similar to what TYPO3 has already incl and integrated File abstraction Layer to integrate reporsitories and CDNs like Flickr, Picasa, Dropbox, Box, Google Drive etc.) MODULE (this complete section I would integrate into the Administration Module Manager) SETTINGS (some coudl also be in DEVELOPER) - Fields - Field Generator - Field Select Creator - Forms - Hanna Code - Langage Translator - Languages - Menu Builder - Templates DEVELOPER - Batcher - Code Tester - MultiPage editor - Selector Tester - Tag Parser Test Page - Template Editor Live Site (Link to the frontend opening up in external TAB!) ---- This is only a brief Idea but it would help to give much better support, to write tutorials which are valid for most sites as they simply have the modules at the same place. etc.

It woudl be great to have a section where to discuss end-user suability stuff of Processwire. As PW seems to be build with focus mainly on developers, but actually it will be endusers without any programming know how using and working with that site, it woudl be advised to make some usability adjustments for End users. Some have already been mentioned and some modules already focus that problem: i.e. Nicos SEO Module kongondos Blog Module kongondos Galley Module The Frontend User Management Module The Modules Manager (if that actually would get adjusted to display also the "Tabs" of the build in Module part - this build in module part would be obsolete and the modules manager would cover all tasks and needs necessary and beside that it would display all available modules! a really great feature which makes development much faster. Also it reduces the need to install a module with the idea you probably will need it later as you have just found it. It also would be great if there would be a centralized List of Modules which are not listed in teh official reporsitory bt which are available from one of the processwire developer githubs. - some kind of inofficial list - people who list there works here could get entioned (advertising for them) and of course linked to there repositories at githup. This way the community would get much better informations about what is already available beside the official repositories and what is probably in the pipeline. Add an donation button to "rate/sponsor" the development with 1 dollar minimum and that would help than also those developers. and would make it interesting for the developers to post their dev stuff in the inofficial list! ... there should be also a much better structure for stuff in the backend which you install. Until now everything gets installed in "setup" or "pages" (this could be achieved by having some more categories for the backend) Until now you need all modules manually to the most usable position for endusers. Another thing are quite simple adjustments: i.e. the text here would be very usable if it would be a link to the page where the user can than start the upgrade process. A ProcessWire core upgrade is available (dev 2.5.7) An upgrade for AjaxSearch is available (1.1.2) An upgrade for AdminCustomFiles is available (0.8.5) Right now he has to look first for the module "Upgrade" or for the Modules Manager. this search and upgrade could take place with a simple click - > upgrade all now and than all mentioned modules and core parts get upgraded upgrade core upgrade module by click on the specific module. by click the security display - do you want to upgrade - and the info about the new stuff (changelog) which had been added. There are lots of more smaller and bigger things we coudl discuss in a separate Usability for End User Section (perhaps choose a better Name for it) Thanks

Hi This thread is already quite old and I just found it. IMHO there is much more important that a Theme to have a great CMS. One great solution you can see here: https://www.odoo.com/page/website-builder Here you can very easily build your complete website without any PHP or HTML knowledge. OK it is written in Python but a very similar approach you can find here using PHP. http://themes.creiden.com/?theme=Circleflip scroll slow;y down the site and read the each single point. This is actually what a website consitst of. -> small blocks Now try the demo: http://themes.creiden.com/circleflip/builder-demo/wp-login.php [demo:demo] it is very comprehensible and easy to use and it saves a lot of time for designers. All those approaches are based on blocks. Each block you can design and connect to its own css, which than even could be switched. In other words you have lots of reusable Materials for building a website without major coding. As each block is reduced to its own simplicity fields and its types could be assigned to each block and therefore would be themable. as the names of those blocks would stay the same throughout any theme. IMHO this Website Builder from circleflip only would need to be integrated into processwire and processwire could provide instantly a complete fleet of differnt themes which even would include different functionality options. There is another builder from wpbakery but it is not nearly as good as the one you have in circleflip. One huge Manko of TYPO3 was always that they had no way of themeing until webempoweredchurch started using TemplaVoila for their templating engine and than Ron Hall build the framework for temnplaVoila on top of it. Since than TYPO3 was themable and you were able to very easily switch themes. As the development of TemplaVoila had been nearly stopped (developer quitted) the decision came up to build TYPO3-THEMES - http://typo3-themes.org Meanwhile this TYPO3 Themes containes a very powerful way to reuse designs and flexible elements even in a nested way. While the solutions of the wordpress and odoo builders is more based on blocks, the TYPO3 Solution is some kind different. A Page has always a base design and than each extension and each flexible content element omes with its own design. As those elements are often usuable in a nested way the way the css and js is working needs to be more flexible. In circleflip website builder you can neste some elements too, also here the css adjusts automatically to the new needs. Mostly this is possible by using less (better choice) or sass and a processor which calculates the image sizes according to the column sizes. In both versions Theming is later very easy. At circleflip you can see already their potential which comes out from one simple template. Even a one page template can be realized without any hazlle. With TYPO3 Themes the same is possible but until now they are still trying to release that great feature ;-) TYPO3 and Processwire suffer in terms of Templates the same problem. IMHO they can compete very well with other CMS like wordpress if they would have not only THEMES and Profiles but also a way which makes it easy to build a website with all its design elements. Like picking up the parts from your LEGO Box. 90% of webprojects I assume could so be finished in more or less one or two days instead of weeks and months until the real valuable content could be inserted by the customer. The biggest benefit of Processwire in comparison to TYPO3 woudl be that templating is actually way easier and much more flexible! So PW could really take the lead here by having a website build feature available. -- Drupal by the way realized that two already years ago before the wordpress people came up with their builder solutions. Also here they are using blocks. -- At Processwire there was a simple bocks module as a proof of concept - perhaps this woudl be a good starting point. In addition there should be quite strikt conventions how the folder strukture of a theme has to be build up. Right now it is more do what they want style at processwire ;-) unfortunately. Templates which you use are often mixed with some which got installed by extensions. and as everything gets sorted in an alphabeticall way it gets fast chaotic. Better would be that all those example temoplates get installed in one folder and from this folder you actually COPY the ones you need to another folder which contains only the templates used in one site in front and in backend. site/templates/examples/ contains all templates site/templates/frontend/ contains all templates used on the frontend site/templates/backend/ contains all those used in the backend each of those template folders than have their own but always same structure: i.e. site/templates/frontend/theme-name/bootstrap/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/color_theme.css site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/syle.css site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/mystyle.css site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/font/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/less/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/extra/lightbox/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/extra/fullcalendar/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/css/extra/datatables/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/documentation/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/html/(with the html version of a template so designers can easily start working imediately) site/templates/frontend/theme-name/images/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/includes/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/js/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/section/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/snippet/ site/templates/frontend/theme-name/_init.php site/templates/frontend/theme-name/index.php site/templates/frontend/theme-name/.... --- there also would need to be a file which module might be required by each Theme.

Matt Cutts about WordPress and SEO - worth watching! Listen carefully as you will here "keywords" .... - don't mix that tool up with seoiq.de (Trittbrett Fahrer) keywords in meta data are not the same like "on-page keywords"!!! The later is still quite important, even with Google. 200 Faktors http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/226884 Daily Google is changing their algorithms so change your way of doing SEO at the same rate and you will be on the top of the pop perhaps! Goos SEO means at first place high quality content - and this content in on the visible site of all web pages and pages need to perform very good - speed! Test your sites in http://gtmetrix.com

I personally won't waste to much time in keywords but from a business point of view "keywords" is itself such a manifested keyword for selling a website as a SEO website! And alone because of that I would leave the field just where it is inside the SEO Tool and the website. Let the customers fill it up like doctors give them some placebos and they will buy your sites ;-) and ideas!

Keywords still play a role but they need to be related to what you write in the text on the frontpage itself. This is quite important as otherwise you getpenelaized. But it means also that search engines still use the field and there are more search engines than only Google!

Hi Adrian Yes we had always database access which makes things much easier! Perhaps simply mention in the migrator description that people should convert their sites first to UTF8 - while they are still in Wordpress or elsewhere and than start the actual migration process to processwire with an xml which contains that utf8 data already. The main problem we encountered was doubled encoded stuff and this can be a real headache. By converting first to utf8 before exporting data to xml this could be avoided or actually the problem would be with the ones who created probably that encoding mismatch. ;-)

Hi Adrian have a look here as it sums it up very good http://codex.wordpress.org/Converting_Database_Character_Sets You need to convert the fields to their binary counterparts first and than convert to utf 8 and than move the data again from the binary counterparts to the originals. CHAR ⇾ BINARY TEXT ⇾ BLOB TINYTEXT ⇾ TINYBLOB MEDIUMTEXT ⇾ MEDIUMBLOB LONGTEXT ⇾ LONGBLOB VARCHAR ⇾ VARBINARY In 2007 we converted the complete UNESCO Bangkok website (about 5500 Pages and 16.000 Content Elements (multilingual in the 6 UNESCO Languages) from latin1 to utf8 actually using WordPress. The original was a TYPO3 Database so we installed WordPress into that database and than called the Wordpress Plugin for the conversion. Not sure if it still exists and is still working. This plugin was actually able to convert all available Tables and Fields in that database no matter if they were TYPO3 or WordPress or something else. Attacked if they were already outfit and skipped those. The latin ones it converted first to binaries and than performed the conversion before moving back the data. The only problem we actually encountered was that some data was already utf8 encoded but the settings were latin1. so the plugin thought to convert those which caused a doubled conversion and strange output. https://wordpress.org/plugins/utf-8-database-converter/ http://naveensnayak.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/mysql-convert-to-utf8/ https://codex.wordpress.org/User:JeremyClarke/exampleSQLForUTF8Conversion Andi

Thanks for you example Martijn The userGroup Model which you want to use in your Rest. Application. Now take the example and make it available so that somebody who is Thai can enter the user Group description in Thai and in English and probably also in another language as in their company they have a Foreign Owner but only Thai Staff which is bad in English but which finally has to manage the content and stuff. You will simply fail as the UserGroup Description Field is a monolingual field and needs first tonbe changed to an multilingual field manually. It is NOT about the coding or labels etc. it is about what you fill into that fields and those need to be multilingual by default. Now extend your service as a phuket Guide which should serve many mobile apps in different languages. But you want to maintain it in one restfull application. Again you would need multilingual fields to put the content in. Or take a Bank which has a mobile app - well they have a chooser for the language and of course they maintain the data again in one application. It does not matter if it is exposed to the web or not if the data inside your service or app or whatshowever needs to be multilingual. The real power of an application is its possibility to be multilingual. Mono stuff is out there already a lot which does its job much easier or even better than PW would even be capable to. It does not make sense to reinvent wheels. DeFacto as I mentioned already PW is used mostly for websites - if you like it or not! By the way we translated with our company TYPO3 100% it took us one month. since we had translated TYPO3 to Thai Language we had significant more thai developers interested in that system. they started to build websites with it and loved it. They build websites for customers which made them much more aware about TYPO3 at all here and also we had much more customers. It is simply a fact.

Hi Marjin You don't need to tell me to read English I can read English but if you want to get your feed on the ground in Asia you really do much better to provide multilinguality - even in Mobile Apps by the way! The extensions I was talking about is UserGroups - it is definetly made for websites and NOT for things you mention. The other one which is also 100% made for websites - as a newsletter subscription field like this simply don't make sense on Mobile apps. and if you have a look to the process wire framework you will realise that there are a lot of more modules which serve for websites only and those provide those text, texture, page title, image etc fields which are monolingual. A Planing System which would be used in the majority of the IT world would need to be multilingual. the same applies to most iPad apps etc. Lingua Franca is in the head of most western developers but it does not suit all they actually would like to reach. The overhead you are talking about is really not so big to be mentioned ;-) stay realistic. It is a much bigger overhead to change all text to TextLanguage all TextArea to TextAreaLanguage Fields etc. This could be avoided by using multilingual ....Language fields in the modules instead of the monolingual one. If than - and only if!!! - there is one who needs to have a Newslettersubscription oder a UserGroupDescription only monolingual on his iPad App or Planning Tool etc ..... Simply have a look to what has been done with Processwire until now - check the references! Do you see one single iPad App or a Planner or something which points in that direction ;-) Also with NEOS the new TYPO3 kid in theblog you can do all the stuff but to be honest - aren't there much better tools to do that? Concerning Tutorials I give you a BIG smile - simply come here or to Vietnam or to China or elsewhere in that area and try to teach them what you just wrote here. You will soon realise that it will not work at all, even not in Japan! Here in South East Asia you have a market which is quite young and just starting. Have a look to the websites here! Most of them you will have problems to read. While you will be able to read Spanish or even discover some words from Finnish reading the word and the letter, people in South East Asia have a much much bigger challenge than any westerner to read English. i.e. Your "Websedevlopers should do them selfs a favour and ..." paragraph looks translated like this: Try to discover one single word! in Thai it is: นักพัฒนาเว็บควรจะทำอย่างไรที่ตัวเองชอบและเรียนรู้ภาษาสิ่งที่ถูกนำมาใช้มากที่สุดในการพัฒนา สำหรับผมนี้หมายถึงผมต้องเรียนรู้จากข้อมูลที่เขียนภาษาอังกฤษและเศร้าสำหรับผมโลกที่ไม่ได้พูดภาษาดัตช์ การเรียนรู้จากเพียงภาษาของคุณเอง (ถ้าไม่ภาษาอังกฤษ) เป็นข้อ จำกัด ใหญ่ในการพัฒนาเว็บ ตอนนี้ผมไม่ได้พูดคำภาษาสเปน แต่ผมรู้ว่าผมจะมีเมื่อสิ่งที่พัฒนาทั้งหมดที่ทำในภาษาสเปน in Simple Chinese it looks like that: Web开发人员应该做自己一个忙，学习什么是使用最广泛的开发语言。对于我来说，这意味着我必须从英语书面资料来学习，可悲的是我的世界不是说荷兰语。只从自己的语言（如果不是英语）学习是网络发展的一大限制。现在我不会说一个字西班牙语，但我知道肯定我会在所有开发的东西是在西班牙完成。 in Khmer អភិវឌ្ឍបណ្ដាញគួរធ្វើដោយខ្លួនគេពេញចិត្តនិងការរៀនភាសាអ្វីដែលត្រូវបានគេប្រើច្រើនបំផុតក្នុងការអភិវឌ្ឍ។ ចំពោះខ្ញុំរឿងនេះមានន័យថាខ្ញុំត្រូវរៀនពីភាសាអង់គ្លេសព័ត៌មានសរសេរនិងគួរឱ្យស្តាយសម្រាប់ខ្ញុំពិភពលោកនេះគឺមិនត្រូវនិយាយហូឡង់។ រៀនពីមានតែភាសាផ្ទាល់ខ្លួនរបស់អ្នក (ប្រសិនបើមិនជាភាសាអង់គ្លេស) គឺជាដែនកំណត់ដ៏ធំមួយក្នុងការអភិវឌ្ឍន៍បណ្ដាញ។ ឥឡូវនេះខ្ញុំមិននិយាយពាក្យអេស្ប៉ាញនោះទេប៉ុន្តែខ្ញុំដឹងច្បាស់ថាខ្ញុំនឹងមានពេលដែលវត្ថុទាំងអស់ត្រូវបានធ្វើការអភិវឌ្ឍនៅក្នុងភាសាអេស្ប៉ាញ។ in Hindi वेब डेवलपर्स खुद को एक एहसान और सबसे विकास में प्रयोग किया जाता है क्या भाषा सीखना चाहिए. मेरे लिए यह मैं अंग्रेजी लिखित जानकारी से सीखने के लिए है और अफसोस की बात है मेरे लिए दुनिया डच बात नहीं है इसका मतलब है. केवल अपनी ही भाषा (अंग्रेजी नहीं अगर) से सीखना वेब विकास में एक बड़ी सीमा है. अभी मैं स्पेनिश एक शब्द नहीं बोलते, लेकिन मैं सभी विकास सामान स्पेनिश में किया गया था जब मैं होता कि पक्का पता है. in Lao ການພັດທະນາເວັບໄຊຕ໌ຄວນຈະເຮັດດ້ວຍຕົນເອງເງື່ອນໄຂແລະຮຽນຮູ້ພາສາທີ່ນໍາໃຊ້ຫຼາຍທີ່ສຸດໃນການພັດທະນາ. ສໍາລັບຂ້າພະເຈົ້ານີ້ຫມາຍຄວາມວ່າຂ້າພະເຈົ້າມີທີ່ຈະຮຽນຮູ້ຈາກຂໍ້ມູນຂ່າວສານລາຍລັກອັກສອນອັງກິດແລະ sadly ສໍາລັບຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໃນໂລກແມ່ນບໍ່ເວົ້າໂຮນລັງ. ການຮຽນຮູ້ຈາກພຽງແຕ່ພາສາຂອງທ່ານເອງ (ຖ້າຫາກວ່າບໍ່ອັງກິດ) ເປັນຂອບເຂດຈໍາກັດອັນໃຫຍ່ຫຼວງໃນການພັດທະນາເວັບໄຊຕ໌. ສິດທິໃນປັດຈຸບັນຂ້າພະເຈົ້າບໍ່ສາມາດເວົ້າຄໍາວ່າແອສປາໂຍນ, ແຕ່ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າຮູ້ວ່າສໍາລັບໃຫ້ແນ່ໃຈວ່າຂ້າພະເຈົ້າຈະມີເວລາທີ່ stuff ການພັດທະນາທັງຫມົດທີ່ໄດ້ເຮັດຢູ່ໃນແອສປາໂຍນ. in Hongkong Chinese (traditional Chinese) Web開發人員應該做自己一個忙，學習什麼是使用最廣泛的開發語言。對於我來說，這意味著我必須從英語書面資料來學習，可悲的是我的世界不是說荷蘭語。只從自己的語言（如果不是英語）學習是網絡發展的一大限制。現在我不會說一個字西班牙語，但我知道肯定我會在所有開發的東西是在西班牙完成。 in Vietnamese Các nhà phát triển Web phải làm cho mình một ưu và học ngôn ngữ gì được sử dụng nhất trong phát triển. Đối với tôi điều này có nghĩa là tôi phải học hỏi từ thông tin bằng văn bản tiếng Anh và thật đáng buồn đối với tôi thế giới đang không nói Hà Lan. Học từ chỉ ngôn ngữ của bạn (nếu không phải tiếng Anh) là một hạn chế lớn trong phát triển web. Ngay bây giờ tôi không nói được một từ tiếng Tây Ban Nha, nhưng tôi biết chắc chắn rằng tôi sẽ có khi tất cả các công cụ phát triển đã được thực hiện tại Tây Ban Nha. Burmese (Myanmar), Korean, Japanese, and all those Indian Languages. This is a huge market which Joomla already discovered and WordPress as in those regions you have lots developers. One reason why Western Companies also outsource stuff here. Most of them don't speak English at all but are gorges developers. They learn either by learning by doing and the try and error principle or most of them actually read tutorials which are available in their languages. It is quite similar with the Popularity of the Bible. People sed it after it had been translated. Another approach you can see in the Muslim world were kids get taught arabic - even here. One reason why TYPO3 or actually Open Source Software is so big in Germany and German spoken countries is that they have tutorials and books in German - the whole Processwire community would do themselves a huge favour not to knock out all those potential customers by focussing on a monolingual or iPad / Planner etc approach. 90% of the Usage of Processwire and I guess it is even 95% and much more is for websites ONLY! not even for an Intranet. Check out the references and try to find one of those kind of applications you have mentioned. Out of those nearly 90 - 100% Usage about 75% will be multilingual stuff involved - either in the backend as English (Default) and another language is used i.e. German or because the website has even a multilingual fronted. As a result out of that it would be much more economical for any web agency to have multilingual module fields by default! and for those who want to have a monolingual field perhaps a button to choose the monolingual way. Even web applications which have been monolingual at first place get often translated and than need to be multilingual. In a monolingual approach the would mean that all fields need to be changed and the text in those fields often probably would need to be reassigned. In a multilingual approach you would simply install another language and here you go - enter your translated content anywhere you want. Ryan wrote himself in another thread about textarea fields that he thinks multilingual and that his sites are multilingual so why not make it the default. As a monolingual framework you cut off a whole bunch of opportunities - one reason why Drupal AND why WordPress introduced WPML ready and Drupal 8 which is multilingual. This is for sure one of the reasons why there are so many Indian Developers ;-) Most have huge problems in English Proficiency! I don't think that it is a limitation of their skills. It is much more a limitation for the product you want to introduce to them - no matter it is an app for smartphones build on Processwire or a planner for an Intranet or most often a website, which is the most common case to use php at all.

Hi sorry - probably wrong formulated. It makes it easier in tutorials as you don't have to specify what kind of Text or TextLanguage Field etc you are using. All Fields should be internationalised and this should be a standard in Processwire IMHO. Right now you need to change all kind of fields to be Multilingual Fields instead and this would be no more necessary. If you than talk in a Tutorial that you can choose another language from the Tab above the field, than it does not matter if it is an monolingual text or a multilingual TextLanguage as both would have the same features (as only one of them exists - actually the TextLanguage would exist etc.) So Tutorials would be much less confusing no matter what language those tutorials will be written in - Mainly they are usually in English and German. But be aware as if you are living in a South East Asian Country you will know that Tutorials are often Translated to the local Language as the English Proficiency here is very bad! Joomla is big here in Thailand as they provide lots of Tutorials and Drupal is coming since some Tutorials exist in Thai too. This will be valid for all kind of stuff which wants to get into the south east asian and also into the Chinese market by the way and This Market is HUGE!

I would suggest that Module developers which create Fields in their Modules should implement an option to choose monolingual or multilingual or make their Modules by default multilingual (would be best) Reason: In Modules like the newsletter module we have fields: pw_newsletter_subscription_name with TYPE Text - better would be TextLanguage the same for i.e. UserGroups module where the group_description is a Text and not a TextLanguage Field Actually IMHO all Text and all Texture Fields could be even in the core TextLanguage and TextareaLanguage and PageTitleLanguage Fields. This would not at all create a big overhead or cause any problems when the Text / Textarea and Pagetitle fields would be simply multilingual by default. I would simply replace them completely and no more use the monolingual fields at all. It would make module development and module usage in monolingual and multilingual settings much much easier - the same would apply to tutorials etc.

It is the UserGroups Module: https://processwire.com/talk/topic/5658-alpha-release-usergroups-page-based-permissions/ and here the UserGroupsHooks.module which needs to be deactivated!

Hi Nico The conflicting Module for Your LanguageInstantInstall is "User Groups Hooks". - Autoload module that attachs all the hooks required by User Groups. - When you activate that than it is no more possible to add Languages with your module. Andi

Hi Nico Best is probably to use one of those introduction packages. And I pm you tomorrow with some example sites so you don't have the hazzle to need to setup TYPO3. Export is possible via [.t3d typo3] - attention when you search in Google as t3d is also used for other stuff not TYPO3 related. T3D is basically an XML file. Choose the uncompressed version if you do not intend to import it back to TYPO3 You can specify very exactly what needs to get exported and also what you wantto modify before importing or while importing i.e. some names or paths or email etc. Than this .t3d puts all together db data, files from fileadmin/uploads and exports the complete stuff and you can import it elsewhere. In TYPO3 6.2 you can now even make a backup from only one specific extension data tables and only export those. this would be anotherway but it exports only db Data so related images or relations to other files and records might be missing but they are not missing when using .t3d! The good thing on .t3d export is that you can export only a Page or one record , a branch or severeal specific pages or branches or a complete site etc. It is very very flexible. Sometimes it is necessary to do several exports because in the past ithad problems when the .t3d was getting much to big. Die extension die diesen export gewaehrleistet heist impext. (import/export) https://forge.typo3.org/projects/typo3cms-core/repository/revisions/master/show/typo3/sysext/impexp http://typo3forum.hosting-agency.de/vorgefertigte-typo3-templates-als-t3d-import-t3004.html da hast du quasi einblick in die Erzeugung dieser Datei .t3d. --------- Bezueglich des einlesen woanders wuerde ich bei dem Drupal migrator und typo3_migrator von Drupal (ab)schauen. https://www.drupal.org/project/TYPO3_migrate but it can actually only export tt_news /tt_news categories and standard content elements like text/text with image / image etc --------- how to import a site via .t3d since TYPO3 6.2. there are distributions. also they work with .t3d files distributions are more or less similar to profiles in processwire or distributions in drupal. http://wiki.typo3.org/Distributions https://forge.typo3.org/projects/typo3v4-distribution/wiki http://docs.typo3.org/typo3cms/CoreApiReference/ExtensionArchitecture/CreateNewDistribution/Index.html Some distributions are here: https://github.com/Ecodev/typo3-cms-speciality-distribution http://wiki.typo3.org/Introduction_Package http://typo3.org/extensions/repository/view/introduction ------ In real sites (beside the introduction package) you usually have also extensions installed. I wil setup some examples tomorrow for you so you can use them. ------- TYPO3 is facing currently lots of challenges as they started to abandon the very userfriendly templaVoila templating engine in favor of less friendly stuff like flux https://fluidtypo3.org/ or Gridelements http://t3sbootstrap.de/t3sbootstrap/ with Fluid Flux http://t3bootstrap.de/de/typo3-bootstrap-template/ with TemplaVoila in 6.1.* http://t3bootstraptv.de/de/typo3-bootstrap/or a combination of in TYPO3 Themes http://typo3-themes.org/ (it is very very flexible as it orientates on the framework for templaVoila but uses now gridelements to store the data as a real record) Framework for templaVoila - many US Church websites have been build with that and they are now without that package anymore as the webempowerd church which made all this great userfriendly stuff in TYPO3 possible abandonned TYPO3. Here would be a great resource for conversion projects in US and Germany. https://github.com/webempoweredchurch http://www.hopoffacloud.com/webempoweredchurch/ Lots of chiurch websites have been build on the wec starter package https://github.com/webempoweredchurch/starter_package with one click more or less you have a complete and complexe website for churches up and running incl example data - with calendar, events management, jobboard, podcast extension, userrights management, news, blog, guestbook, gallery and much more - all those are now actually potential processwire customers if we could provide them an easy way to switch and a similar church package but based on processwire. The Framework for TemplaVoila whichwas the base for that package in its version 1.* has also been used by lots of companies all around the world. http://templavoila.busynoggin.com/ They all are facing now the same problem. TemplaVoila is working in 6.2. but the newest framework for templavoila extension which is 2.1.3 is not publicly available in TER. so many don't even kmnow how to get it (it's actually still free but you ned to contact the developer) To be honest most customers like all that hazzle anymore which ahrmed TYPO3 a lot since years. So they are looking for alternatives. As TYPO3 6.2. is also slower than 4.7. and many extensions don't work anymore so they arefrustrated and woudl need to convert their old TYPO3 site (many based on templaVoila) to the new version 6.2.6. The time needed to do that is probably much much more than simply starting using Processwire ;-) and converting their data and content to Processwire. The great thing is that Processwire already has more features which are usefull for enusers than TYPO3 IMHO - it has separate core, is multilingual and multidomain capable (we currently have to convert a multilingual church website for 400 churches in one TYPO3 from TYPO3 4.5 LTS to TYPO3 6.2.6 LTS and it is also using that framework of Ron Hall and we finally will convert the content to be used with typo3-themes. CRAZY if you ask me but there is currently no other way to get the site again working in TYPO3. More and more customers with actually the same problems will come. From a marketing perspektive I would suggest that Processwire needs an import tool to import TYPO3 sites from TYPO3 4.5 LTS / TYPO3 4.7.* / TYPO3 6.1.* and TYPO3 6.2.5+ mainly for sites using TemplaVoila!!! Those are the customers sitting on a sinking ship with a huge whole in it! ;-) Prosesswire can be the safe groud for all of them. Afterthat migration tool exists we start promoting it in the German and English Onlline Magazines i.e. http://t3n.de - this will open up the eyes of lots of customers. Additionally we can ask the former manager of the WEC to help promotinga Processwire Church Pakcage and of course also the Company Package which includes that migrator. I am pretty sure that lots of people will switch as especially the saftey and security record of processwire is definitley better than The one of TYPO3 and a huge huge difference to stuff like those insecure applications since years i.e. wordpress, joomla, and drupal. Checkout the secunia security index. http://secunia.com/community/advisories/search/?search=processwire http://secunia.com/community/advisories/search/?search=typo3 http://secunia.com/community/advisories/search/?search=joomla http://secunia.com/community/advisories/search/?search=drupal http://secunia.com/community/advisories/search/?search=wordpress I hope that helps a bit to make clear what treassure is actually out there. Andi

@jmartsch The title field is actually good as you can use it as a browser title field which can differ from the page title or an ulr pathsegment etc.

Hi Rob thanks for your reply. The problem I see is that those modules which get no more maintained are still visible and couted to those about 240 Processwire modules currently. Perhaps it would be great if there would be a hint or even better a big sign which says - LOOKING FOR NEW MAINTAINER - as than somebody else could take over the modules you have created and continue to maintain them. If those are currently obsolete, because they have been integrated i.e. in other modules or even the core, than it woudl be advised to mark them as obsolete (please don't use anymore) Andi

Hi Nico. Is the importer also working with the blog module and the boostrap profile instead of the blogprofile! Andi

Hi Nico Currently lots of people are actually switching from TYPO3 to other CMS and IMHO this will be also be the case in future as they simply made to many codebreaking changes to extensions where they kept the name, but after updates your complete site was blank etc. So people get frustrated. Like us too by the way. We were looking long time for another CMS which has most or evenmore benefits than TYPO3 and I ampretty sure we found it in Processwire. it is faster very modularized multidomain capable (i.e. we made a site for 400 churches in one TYPO3 - and they now need to update from TYPO3 4.5 to 6.2.6 and are also not happy that many things no more work like before) multilingual and has multilingual SEO (if you adjust your module which you just released - it's great thanks) you can have profiles and very easy backups of your sites and profiles using the profile exporter (a think that was missing in TYPO3 all those years!) the core is separate and it can be updated much easier than in TYPO3 In TYPO3 6.2 you can now create profiles and import them >>> IMHO one way to build a migrator to processwire! and to move customers over, another way is the .t3d export of complete branches or only single pages. It is an internal format for TYPO3 where you can afterwards all data back into another TYPO3 page. Also this could be a great way to use for an importer from TYPO3 to Processwire as it imports all kind of data and files and relations. -- Like said we have lots of customers and usually they ask us to build a TYPO3 website (since 2002 we are doing that) but meanwhile we suggest that they switch toprocesswire. The main problem for all those companies and people is that they ran their sites often in TYPO3 for many many years and are now afraid that it will be very difficult to import their current site data from TYPO3 to processwire. If there would be an importer like your wordpress importer than it would be quite easy to switch customers to processwire. Another 2 problems - (need to discuss that in another thread) is the flexible templating for editors what is available in TYPO3 and now wordpress and drupal but still not in Processwire. and the Digital Asset management which id great in TYPO3 as you can integrate dropbox, googledrive using a File Abstraction Layer and the build in fileadmin is great to with his Meta Data management (similar to DAM). Those things are still missing Processwire but I hope that the Gallery Extension will be released soon as it looks great. Let's see. The biggest hurdle to convert customers from TYPO3 to Processwire is actually their data. When I did the coding of the UNESCO Bangkok website 2007-2010 they had about 550 pages with 16.000 Content Elements and 25.000 Digital Assets (in DAM Digital Asset Manager). East West Center (2008-2010) was very similar to that, but had additionally lots of user data coming from their editors and every day lots of news articles and their categories and tags and their specific permissions. This site was also TYPO3 and is now Drupal (also done with an importer to Drupal by Srijan Technology a former TYPO3 and now Drupal supporter) - http://www.srijan.net/work/typo3-drupal-east-west-center/ Those are sites we name here only as an example as we had worked before with it, but to be able to convert those sites incl their user rights management to processwire would open up very new perspectives to Processwire. This is Enterprise Level! Beside this of course there are tons Universities, NGOs, Schools, Governmental, SME and lots of small TYPO3 websites which meanwhile often complain that TYPO3 in Version 6.2 is to slow, getting to instable and that with each new update you don't know if your site perhaps will turn blank/will be inaccessible. In other words NOW is the right time to crack that nut and convert more and more of the still existing customers to Processwire. A module which would do that would be just ideal for that purpose. Perhaps you can "reconstruct it" ;-) even it's already 2 years ago you did give it a try. Perhaps those two links canhelp you to get such a module done: https://www.drupal.org/project/migrate https://www.drupal.org/project/typo3_migrate https://www.drupal.org/node/1188446 Similar to the processwire approach they are using a general Module and a CMS specific (in this case TYPO3) module the latest update is 2013-Oct-19

Hi Martin well if you wanna play in the top CMS leauge than better adjust to the encyclopedia ;-) - and get one new Processwire customer after the other converting TYPO3 Enterprise Level Sites to Processwire. The market shares of TYPO3 in Europe - especially Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland are great and very highprized. But with only WordPress Like seo features you won't get them at all. No joke - If you understand SEO the right way and we are doing it here since years,aha than you really should use all that stuff the right way. To beat wordPress might be enough what is in there right now but this is just the beginning of what could be achieve with an enterprise SEO feature. Perhaps you meant the way the data got clutterd in the post - so perhaps have a look to the link I have posted - It shows very clear what values are necessary. We use that tool (actually the predecessor of it called tq_seo) since many years with great success. now we try to convince more and more customers to use Processwire instead of TYPO3 and WordPress (which is already crab by the way as they should have kept it as a blogging plattform for what it had been developed originally. I