Hello PW3 and more!

[ryan]

First off, a big thanks to Jonathan Lahijani and Benjamin Milde for taking over the last two weeks of blog posts while I was traveling. They did an awesome job. If you haven't yet read Jonathan's CMS Critic case study or Benjamin's Migrations module introduction, be sure to check them out.

This week we started using our new GitHub organization repository to soft launch version 3.0. ProcessWire 3.0 now appears on packagist as well (installable via Composer). We’ve got several other updates for you as well! 

https://processwire.com/blog/posts/hello-pw3/

[szabesz]

Thanks again for all the goodies to all involved!

One thing I've noticed: composer require processwire/processwire has not yet been added neither to /docs/install/new/ nor to /download/ page. I mean the possibility to install it is not mentioned on those pages  

Edited September 23, 2016 by szabesz

[LostKobrakai]

I'm not sure, but isn't this more what people might be looking for when creating a new project:

composer create-project processwire/processwire

Otherwise processwire will be pulled inside the vendor folder, where it's from questionable use besides for being bootstrapped into other applications.

[szabesz]

To tell the truth, I've just copied it over from Ryan's blog post without thinking too much... Probably that is why the "Composer method" of installing is not yet "promoted". I'm not a Composer user, but it would be interesting to see what the recommended way of setting up a site and using Composer at the same time is. A tutorial for Composer newbies like me would be nice.

[LostKobrakai]

What i posted is essentially the same as downloading processwire manually. There's not much more to it. It would automatically install any dependencies, but there aren't ones for processwire.

[qtguru]

On 9/23/2016 at 8:22 PM, szabesz said:

To tell the truth, I've just copied it over from Ryan's blog post without thinking too much... Probably that is why the "Composer method" of installing is not yet "promoted". I'm not a Composer user, but it would be interesting to see what the recommended way of setting up a site and using Composer at the same time is. A tutorial for Composer newbies like me would be nice.

wow why don't you use Composer, it's really a must-use tool esp for resolve dependency in PHP world

[szabesz]

11 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

wow why don't you use Composer, it's really a must-use tool esp for resolve dependency in PHP world

I see, however I'm farm from being a full time PHP developer but someone who builds PW and WP sites and not afraid to dive into coding  I've already tinkered with Composer and also with frameworks that heavily rely on them but I do not use any of them. I keep an open eye on Composer though, that is why I started this discussion in the first place. My framework of choice is ProcessWire, so as @LostKobrakai pointed out:

On 9/23/2016 at 9:24 PM, LostKobrakai said:

...automatically install any dependencies, but there aren't ones for processwire.

but let's see what the future holds...

[teppo]

13 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

wow why don't you use Composer, it's really a must-use tool esp for resolve dependency in PHP world

Whether or not one would benefit a lot of Composer depends a lot on the type of work they do (like @szabesz already pointed out), the workflow they prefer, and a few other factors. I for one haven't seen any reason to really get into using Composer. It's not that I don't like it, mind you – I really do, and I actually wish I had more use for it, but I just don't.

I do most of my work with ProcessWire, and most of the time I work on web sites: public-facing sites, intranets, extranets, directories of data, etc. I do custom development for those sites, applications if you will, and in many cases there's some server-side automation / integration involved. ProcessWire does out-of-the-box most of what I need to get that stuff done, I use some third party modules here and there, and PHP itself is a framework with a vast collection tools and extensions built-in.

That being said, when I browse the list of the most popular packages on Packagist, I see some projects I've used in the past (using a basic download / git clone + require one file approach) and some that I probably could've used but usually have worked around with a few lines of my own code. Either way, these projects could've saved me a few minutes (or even hours) here and there, had I already been well versed in the Composer workflow.

Now that ProcessWire supports Composer, I'm probably going to give it a try and see how it feels, but for the time being my opinion still stands: Composer is by no means something you "have to" use, even if you do so-called "serious development". It's one tool among others, and while some no doubt benefit from it greatly, for some it's of very little help (or potentially even harmful as it can tempt you to rely on a dependency for everything – left-pad, anyone?)

[ryan]

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has not yet been added neither to /docs/install/new/ nor to /download/ page. 

This is a good reminder for me. There's not enough time in a week (since I got back in town) and there's plenty of little details I still have to attend to, which is why I thought calling it a soft launch was better. This will definitely be added though. 

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I'm not sure, but isn't this more what people might be looking for when creating a new project:

You are completely right here of course. I have updated the blog post to add that as well. 

Quote

Whether or not one would benefit a lot of Composer depends a lot on the type of work they do…

I agree with this. Composer is pretty awesome and all, but it's not every day that I have a use for it. The work I do rarely requires anything outside of what is already in the PW core. This is likely common among web developers that build sites in PW or some other system that already provides the majority of what you will need. Sephiroth's comment is true when you step outside of this context though, into the wider development world of PHP. With version 3.0 we're hoping to bring more of that world into PW's audience. So even though most of our current audience likely doesn't use/need Composer for many of the sites they develop, my hope is that will change as more people relying on Composer begin to use ProcessWire. Also depending on the site/app, the PW core/modules can't always accommodate every need, so I expect people will very likely increase their use of Composer when the needs for something more arise. 

 

[LostKobrakai]

I think short-term mostly the module development will benefit from the composer addition. No need to pull in symfony/console for multiple modules with cli interface, when once would be enough. The new jumplinks module will be built by using the popular nikic/fast-route package. There are lot's of popular packages to support filetypes like excel or pdf (Pages2PDF uses mpdf), which can simply be pulled in by using composer. Version constrains allow each of those dependencies to be independently updated (e.g. security fixes) without the module author necessarily being involved.

[qtguru]

7 hours ago, teppo said:

That being said, when I browse the list of the most popular packages on Packagist, I see some projects I've used in the past (using a basic download / git clone + require one file approach) and some that I probably could've used but usually have worked around with a few lines of my own code

True you do have a point, Composer is just another means