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PW 3.0.170 – Core updates

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1 hour ago, bernhard said:

Robin, I disagree here. I've modified the admin quite a bit to fit to my needs.

My comments are about styling the admin, and that's done with CSS. I think you might be talking about making changes to the admin markup - or do I have that wrong?

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If anyone else is interested, I started researching different ways to try to solve this problem(not just with Processwire.)  You can view the Google doc here.  Feel free to copy/edit or whatever.

I wonder if we can simplify things?  Do we really want a layout editor in the Processwire backend where you can adjust the grid widths and so on, or do we just need some UI modifications to the tools we already have?

Here's an example where I think the backend page editor is too complex.

from:https://getkirby.com/ and https://modmore.com/contentblocks/

image.thumb.png.5a26e6dd04b49ce04a027b390eaabdad.png   image.thumb.png.aa9cb6e9a7d1541ee18f4c69f9481507.png

  • The page editor could slow down and be clunky from trying to render all the DOM elements?
  • Too complex to work on mobile
  • Content editing gets smushed into small columns
  • Dragging and dropping across layout regions requires a lot of dexterity for the end users - think accessibility.
  • requires taking up the whole page for editing

A page/layout editor will have to somehow visually represent your frontend layout in the backend.  That seems problematic to me.

Instead of having a complex page/layout editor where the user has to drag and drop columns, how about we simplify the interface so that it works on mobile as well?  While the YooTheme demo looks cool, I don't think it would work good on mobile?  I think the YooTheme UI is still too complex.

How about we just allow the user to choose from prebuilt sections or components?  Those prebuilt sections/components could then be edited in the Processwire sidebar panel like the Processwire ProDrafts sidebar editing.

It would be cool if the RepeaterMatrix, Page Reference, Page Table, Repeater fields got rid of all the cluttered "Add New" type links and instead had one "Add new" button/link that would give the option to choose a template visually in a Processwire Sidebar Panel. 

154311667_ScreenShot2021-01-25at09_09_51.jpg.dab3d43ec5264a001c5a7758426db6ad.jpg

Maybe also add another option to RepeaterMatrix, Page Reference, Page Table, Repeater fields to edit pages in the Processwire Sidebar Panel instead of the inline expand/dropdown editing?  Just like the Processwire ProDrafts module does with Live Preview?

image.png.3d2b5df34b67b34e7ba926fc9a602fd8.png

This is how Godaddy.com's website builder works.  You can try it for free.  When you click the plus icon to add a new section, it shows this selector in the sidebar.

image.thumb.png.af90943e66900b1ef5b79b22b4b86642.png

This is also how https://froont.com/ sidebar works.  A user selects a prebuilt section or component/widget.

852538739_ScreenShot2021-01-25at12_21_33.jpg.de32bcb5e0d1103abc015ba706e2104a.jpg

Also http://cards2.webflow.io/ and https://froala.com/design-blocks  and https://www.brizy.io/brizy-design-kit-2/ you can see how a page is built from these widgets/components that stack on top of each other.

Imagine if I were to create a Processwire "Landing Page" template. It would probably only have 3 fields:

  • Page Header - Single Select - to override the default site header
  • Page Sections - Allow Multi Select - to add layout rows 
  • Page Footer - Single Select - to override the default site footer

That would give a lot flexibility of the page design without allowing a user to screw up the design.

When looking at the processwire page editor, it could show the three fields each containing a preview graphic of the element that was selected.  Maybe @bernhard 's module would allow the visual selection of the templates somehow or maybe @ryan could add a representative/template preview image option to all the templates?  

The Sections field would allow multiple selections.  Those selections would display in a single column like the Page Table field that allows you to move the preview graphic of the element that was selected up or down in the list.  Maybe Page Table Extended could be used to show that preview graphic from the TemplatePreviewImages module?  I haven't tried.  If you click the preview graphic, it will open that element in the Processwire Sidebar Panel for editing.

Here is a rough mockup of what it could look like:

2014967171_ScreenShot2021-01-25at14_55_13.jpg.c903fdf172d4d95ac4a1964dbffff8da.jpg

That way the page editing is nice and simple, no need to worry about messing with the indentation of nested elements like in this example:

image.png.d329d6ee6e59d318c7527230d73f38b3.png

Indentation is too easy for editors to mess up IMHO.

Now what happens if you click on the "Three Column" item above?  It would open for editing in Processwire Sidebar Panel on the right.  Now that "Three Column" page has other Page Reference fields to components/widgets:

  • Column 1 - contains a RTE Editor widget using a limited/restricted CKeditor or a markdown editor?
  • Column 2 - contains an Art Directed Responsive Image widget
  • Column 3 - contains a Accordion widget with other types of referenced widgets like a Editorjs.io widget or a file downloads listing widget

So that is where I'm not clear on.  Do we need some mechanism to allow us to "Drill down" to edit other referenced pages in the sidebar?  How do we go deeper?  Could there be some kind of breadcrumbs or back button like on an iphone?  The SilverStripe CMS has drill down editing as seen in this video at the https://youtu.be/IKGUd2dq8XI?t=1022 although it doesn't use sidebar editing.  Technically, I'm not sure how they achieve that?

Anyways, I don't have the solution, but I thought I would share those concepts as rough as they are. 🙂

I also like Bernhard's concept of defining these widget/components in code so they can be shared across sites.  Creating all these fields and templates by clicking in the admin would not be fun.  No disrespect to Processwire.  (I love Processwire and it's admin theme btw)

I love hearing all the discussion on this.  It's one huge problem that definitely needs solving.  I need to able to give non technical users the ability to create customized landing pages without them knowing html.  They like to be able to switch out a whole section just to see what it would look like.  That's why I would prefer to give them the ability to select prebuilt responsive components instead of allowing them the ability to create grids with rows with margins and paddings and so much other htmly stuff.

 

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Good writeup, thx @gmclelland 🙂 

10 hours ago, gmclelland said:

So that is where I'm not clear on.  Do we need some mechanism to allow us to "Drill down" to edit other referenced pages in the sidebar?  How do we go deeper?

Exactly what I thought, when I read your concept. I think the best solution would be to have the page editor work only on the frontend. Then editors have the final layout instantly visible on the right half of the screen and when they click on a block, they can edit that block in a sidebar on the left. If the block had a nested block, they could simply click on that block, which would open a new sidebar at the same position on the screen (left side), overlapping the old sidebar, then closing it. So the editor would be in the nested block and if he/she wanted to go back to the parent block, he/she could click either on "parent" (maybe having breadcrumbs, as you mentioned) or choose the block to edit from the right side of the screen (live preview). Well, that's exactly the concept @kongondo has shown in his video 😄 

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Hey folks!
Iam exited to show you a preview of a pagebuilder fieldtype I'm working on for quite some time now.

Let me know what you think

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Great job jploch and kongondo!  Ya'll can really put together modules quickly.  Looks like that could also be used as "Freeform layout builder" component/section that can be added to a normal page table like I show above?

jploch, I wasn't clear on how the user gets to see the grid editor in your example video?  Do they click on a button to enter into the grid editor or does it take over the normal page editor somehow?  I also like the mobile preview buttons at the top?  Maybe ProDrafts preview mode can add those?  I think CraftCms just added that feature as well?

984324665_ScreenShot2021-01-26at09_22_59.jpg.84915bf907238c3f5eef8bae5f2be7eb.jpg

6 hours ago, bernhard said:

I think the best solution would be to have the page editor work only on the frontend. Then editors have the final layout instantly visible on the right half of the screen and when they click on a block, they can edit that block in a sidebar on the left.

I expected it would work like the ProDrafts preview mode's sidebar?  I just don't want the preview area modifying the site's markup.  Like adding plus icons everywhere or drag and drop.  That is what the Godaddy.com editor does.  I'm not a fan of that.  Sometimes those *features* can cause CSS conflicts and cause the preview to mess up.
See below for example of the buttons that appear on hover:

883367910_ScreenShot2021-01-26at09_10_33.thumb.jpg.41b687fc3e22f5fb6421322adc0588f9.jpg

I like how the ProDrafts preview mode doesn't add those *features* to the preview area.

On another note...people here were also talking about Editorjs.io and storing content in json in the database.

I ran across a spec for that from https://www.sanity.io/ it's called Portable Text https://github.com/portabletext/portabletext and they talk about it more here.

I guess you can run into problems when creating headless sites that store rich text as HTML in the database?  They use JSON instead to remove all the styling and so on.

I'm not sure how widely it is used, but I thought I would mention it in case anyone hasn't heard about it.  I'm also not sure if it is compatible with Editorjs.io?

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And one more...

Meet Brad, a proof-of-concept Bard Fieldtype 🙂.

 

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19 hours ago, gmclelland said:

ploch, I wasn't clear on how the user gets to see the grid editor in your example video?  Do they click on a button to enter into the grid editor or does it take over the normal page editor somehow?

It's just the regular page editor. You can also combine my fieldtype with other fields on the same page. In my example I was using AdminThemeCanvas, maybe that was a little confusing, it will look more like the regular page edit screen with the default theme.

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Here is an example of sidebar editing from https://www.storyblok.com/:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3Q5eIY-u2gI

483103419_ScreenShot2021-02-03at09_20_36.thumb.jpg.f48864d251dd2664a721bb2fa853a3e8.jpg

Sorry, I'm not sure how to embed youtube videos on this forum?

https://www.contentful.com/ also something similar called a "Slide-In Editor"

847652320_ScreenShot2021-02-03at09_16_12.thumb.jpg.17a55db7f1fc882fe39c9675c424785c.jpg

Here is another image that shows how a page is composed in contentful.com.  It looks similar to Processwire's PageTableExtended module, but notice how you can also link existing entries/pages.  We can't do that with PageTable or PageTableExtended.

1857137707_ScreenShot2021-02-03at09_31_16.thumb.jpg.191605c0542f8545855e793a68ee70b9.jpg

PageTableExtended comes close to a lot of the other systems I have seen, but it lacks a few features that would make it a good solution.  It needs to be combined with https://processwire.com/modules/page-table-extra-actions/ and I also don't think the ProDrafts module fully supports PageTableExtended?  It gives a warning that say's "This field doesn't support Drafts. Changes will always save to the live version."

 

 

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Another example of sidebar editing from Umbraco - .Net based CMS.  It also has a nice way of accessing a Media Library from the page your are editing.

 

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