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4 hours ago, jonatan said:

It's number 1 now! 🥇🏆🏅🎖️

Yes! the place that belongs to PW 😎

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On 5/5/2020 at 11:29 AM, jonatan said:

It's number 1 now! 🥇🏆🏅🎖️

Our effort seems to be prized..
I see many new members on the forum with their first posts....

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On 5/12/2020 at 3:28 PM, huseyin said:

Our effort seems to be prized..
I see many new members on the forum with their first posts....

Awesome if it's gained new members! 

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Well now we're suddenly number 2....

We've been overhauled by Kirby! 

Kirby does seem super duper sexy though. 

The high level of flexibility and easy customization does seem quite PW like... But Kirby costs 99 euro per website... 

Some big guys like Harvard, NYT, Smaszhing mag, Philips and Mercedes Benz are using it... 

I think one of the main reasons people would go with it over PW is its very very sleek and sexy looking design. It's very appealing to the creative designer types (like myself). 

PW looks more old-school, developer oriented and technical, branding and UI-wise, compared to Kirby. 

I think we could really win a lot of new PW users if the design was more appealing. What do you guys think? 

Personally I really really don't like the PW CMS UI colour scheme. It seems outdated and not contemporary enough. I always use AdminThemeBoss and in my opinion it makes PW look sooooooo much more sexy, appealing, user friendly and gives a better overview. 

Should it be on the PW roadmap looking at Kirby and alike and make the PW UI more sexy / more contemporary looking per default? 

Oh yeah, and also it's flatfile making switching between dev and production so much easier. Maybe a flatfile db option should also be a future key sales point for PW? 

Best, 

Jonatan 

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Hey @jonatan! Good points regarding Kirby. Just wanted to drop a couple of comments 🙂

On 6/6/2020 at 4:33 AM, jonatan said:

I think one of the main reasons people would go with it over PW is its very very sleek and sexy looking design. It's very appealing to the creative designer types (like myself). 

PW looks more old-school, developer oriented and technical, branding and UI-wise, compared to Kirby. 

I think we could really win a lot of new PW users if the design was more appealing. What do you guys think?

Since you asked:

Personally I find ProcessWire's current admin more appealing than the one in Kirby. I get that this is opinionated, of course, but from my point of view Kirby's GUI is the one that looks dated. For starters everything is tiny and stuffed, the icons and typography are rather mundane (in the lack of a better word), colour theme feels unimaginative (basically just black, gray, and then — gasp — a bit more black) and contrasts are pretty bad.

I may be primarily a developer, but I'm saying this also as a designer and author: Kirby's GUI does not feel appealing to me, and it's definitely not something that would, in any way, inspire me. In a way it's nice and simple, yet at the same time it's "the wrong type of simple". Kind of like someone skipped most of the design phase and instead converted an initial wireframe into a final product 🙂

(Again: this is highly opinionated. I get that different things appeal to different people — there's no universal truth when it comes to something like design. I'm also not trying to dismiss Kirby; I'm sure they have their strong points, but my humble opinion is that the GUI is not one of those.)

On 6/6/2020 at 4:33 AM, jonatan said:

Oh yeah, and also it's flatfile making switching between dev and production so much easier. Maybe a flatfile db option should also be a future key sales point for PW? 

I won't claim to know what the future has in store for this part of the ProcessWire core, but it's worth noting that a lot of what the core currently does depends on an actual database. Ryan has also stated on various occasions that features like full-text index are a must.

I'm not very familiar with Kirby myself, so perhaps they've devised equally flexible and performant ways to perform complex queries, but I'd imagine that being much trickier to implement when you're missing all the nice database features — and without the ability to perform even complex queries, ProcessWire wouldn't really be ProcessWire.

... and, that being said, my understanding is that the flat file thing is one of the biggest — if not the biggest — selling point of Kirby. I bet it's a great tool for a lot of use cases, but one could say that it's really competing in a somewhat different category compared to ProcessWire 🙂

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@teppo Really great to get a lot of different perspectives on it! 😄 

Really nice and well-argumented opinion! It's always funny to once again discover how differently we all perceive the world and how aesthetics comes down to being something so very subjective, as you also write yourself! 🙂 I will agree with you in fact on a lot of things that you point out about the Kirby UI, but I still think it could be really interesting to have the discussion here on the forum about the PW UI. Maybe some cool redesign ideas could pop up? And maybe it could be really interesting to hear some feedback on the UI from clients of PW designers / developers 🙂 

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On 6/6/2020 at 5:57 PM, jonatan said:

@teppo Really great to get a lot of different perspectives on it! 😄 

Really nice and well-argumented opinion! It's always funny to once again discover how differently we all perceive the world and how aesthetics comes down to being something so very subjective, as you also write yourself! 🙂 I will agree with you in fact on a lot of things that you point out about the Kirby UI, but I still think it could be really interesting to have the discussion here on the forum about the PW UI. Maybe some cool redesign ideas could pop up? And maybe it could be really interesting to hear some feedback on the UI from clients of PW designers / developers 🙂 

Personally when it comes to UI as much as I am a fan of that, I am more interested in the code, because of my past experience in Enterprise Companies, I have seen ugly code slapped with an amazing UI. However one thing that irks me off from Kirby is the flat file concept. I am not sold on that, as @teppo mentioned I can't imagine the insane logic adopted to pull such complexities over using files. Seems unnecessarily when RDBMS works. At the end of the day Processwire is Headless, so nothing stops us from getting someone from Dribbble to design a new Admin UI, However I find AdminReno Theme perfect. I also don't think Devs can be easily swayed by UI however the Kirby codes looks interesting , plus so much similar to PW at the same time. 

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