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macbook pro 13 (2017) 8Gb advice


webhoes
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I can get a new macbook pro 13 (2017) with 8Gb and 128 Gb for eur 975. I have no experience with macbooks, only win/ubuntu.

Will this one have enough power to run: Phpstorm, photoshop, 3 docker containers, filezilla, chrome and a email client? At the same time?

I can also get a second hand macbook pro 15 (2015) 16Gb and 256Gb for eur 1275.

What would be the wiser choise?

 

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Just now, webhoes said:

macbook pro 15 (2015) 16Gb and 256Gb

I'm working on this one. I like it a lot. Macs have speedy SSDs so multitasking is NOT an issue, even if you use Adobe programs parallel. In the past I could even work on a Air with 4GB RAM but to speed up 3D rendering (which I do sometimes) I had to switch. I do not know about Docker as I have MAMP Pro, but running NetBeans, 4 or more Adobe programs, 3 browsers, MAMP Pro, Mail app and 10 or more utilities is not an issue for me. It just runs fine.

Also, 2017 MacBook Pros have bad record of keys of the keyboard becoming faulty and not working anymore. For this reason I would never buy a 2017 MBP. I hope this year's new keyboard update solves this issue. We'll see...

BTW, I guess it is more like a Dev Talk than a General Support as it is not really ProcessWire related.

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thanks @szabesz.

The 2017 comes with an invoice and full warranty. The 2015 is out of warranty (don't know I can get the invoice).

I also heard about the faults in the retina display. They needed to be replaced in multiple models/years.

Do you have the additional GPU on it?

 

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Just now, webhoes said:

full warranty

Watching some youtubers describing the faulty key issue, it appears to me that those dead keys are not covered by warranty but I might be wrong. Regarding displays, I used to get one replaced still covered by the standard one year warranty. It's just those new key issues is the one that Apple tries to ignore...

4 minutes ago, webhoes said:

Do you have the additional GPU on it?

No, I do not. I only render still 3D images and by using the CPU – also not too often – so I do not need more in this field.

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3 minutes ago, webhoes said:

How much RAM do you use when you have all apps active as described above?

As I quoted you, I have the 2015 MBP, 16GB RAM and 256GB SSG. This is the standard model which became cheaper ($1600) when the 2017 model was released. I've been using it for almost 2 years without any issues.

Edited by szabesz
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57 minutes ago, webhoes said:

I can get a new macbook pro 13 (2017) with 8Gb and 128 Gb for eur 975. I have no experience with macbooks, only win/ubuntu.

Will this one have enough power to run: Phpstorm, photoshop, 3 docker containers, filezilla, chrome and a email client? At the same time?

I think the fact that you have only 2 cores to run all those apps in 8GB will be a struggle. I own a MBP 13inch 2015 model with 16GB and sometimes it struggles with PHPStorm, Chrome, Parallels, MAMP.

22 minutes ago, webhoes said:

faults in the retina display

Yeap. Screen started peeling off in my Retina and luckily it was replaced for free.

44 minutes ago, szabesz said:

2017 MacBook Pros have bad record of keys of the keyboard becoming faulty

The keyboard died on mine about a 3/4 months ago. Unfortunately, it was not covered and it costs too much to repair so resigned to using a portable logitech keyboard. (Apparently the main board needs replacing!!!)

If you have the budget, go for a 512GB model. IMO 128/256 is going to be too small and you'll be lugging around portable HDDs.

If you don't, get the 15inch model as the 13 inch is going to struggle if you intend to run all those at the same time.

As an aside, I probably will not buy another Macbook Pro until Apple up its game. Seems like the build quality is not there anymore, and why pay a hefty premium for a machine that seems to break down frequently and costly to repair.

I've been using Ubuntu for a month and the ONLY thing I miss from OSX is MAMP. All the other tools I use are easily available on Ubuntu.

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13 minutes ago, FrancisChung said:

Seems like the build quality is not there anymore

Apple has a long record of producing brand new hardware design with various issues. However, in the past they used to repair them for free. These days they produce non-reparable machines in order to make them as flat as possible. This move is very concerning to say the least ?

13 minutes ago, FrancisChung said:

why pay a hefty premium for a machine

I only buy Macs because of mac OS. I would never use Windows. If mac OS dies for some reason, for me  the only choice left is Linux.

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I have been using Ubuntu for some time now. I runs way smoother than windows. But I can't get used to gimp and the quality of images exported in photoshop seems much better. On the other hand, I always get word and excel documents. Libre office can open them, but layout is off. And if they use something like review it is a big mess.

Therefor I want to go to a macbook. It has all that I need in one.

The reason I don't use windows is because it's slower (and my current setup is still pretty fast) and it is a hell to get docker running and keep it running. It costs me too much time.

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One more reaseon to look at macOs is that lately I have to reinstall everything on ubuntu. Every other 2 weeks I have to reinstall spotify, the system monitor stopped working, so I had to install another one...

It could be me, but I hardly tweak and do specific settings on Ubuntu. Even the desktop is untouched.

 

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1 minute ago, webhoes said:

I always get word and excel documents. Libre office can open them, but layout is off

Office in Mac used to be poor too. But it's improved a hell of a lot in the last couple of iterations to a point where I can't tell the difference now between the MacOS & Windows version.

If you only occasionally need Windows then go down the Parallels route, but beware you have to upgrade Parallels every 2 versions. 

6 minutes ago, webhoes said:

it is a hell to get docker running and keep it running

I don't have much experience with Docker (installed it once and ran a container few times).

5 minutes ago, webhoes said:

I have to reinstall everything on ubuntu. Every other 2 weeks I have to reinstall spotify, the system monitor stopped working, so I had to install another one...

I had some initial trouble with Ubuntu but I learnt it's just a matter of installing the drivers manually. It's been very stable so far touch wood.
Sounds like Spotify is the culprit here on first glance, but it could be anything really ... I still don't know my way around Ubuntu to diagnose such issues.
(No doubt some log somewhere will have a cryptic error message)
 

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I like Ubuntu al lot, but also had to fixed loads of issues. I used to work at a company and could ask one of the linux guru's. Now I can't, so figuring things out takes way more time. 

As for spotify, the linux variant is a side project from their developers. They use Linux, but the version is not officially supported by spotify.

It seems macOs is the only stable one in all solution, but that comes with a price ?

 

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Quote

I can get a new macbook pro 13 (2017) with 8Gb and 128 Gb for eur 975. I have no experience with macbooks, only win/ubuntu.
Will this one have enough power to run: Phpstorm, photoshop, 3 docker containers, filezilla, chrome and a email client? At the same time?

I'm running on a 2013 macbook pro (15-inch) with 8gb ram and 256gb drive. I find it works well for PhpStorm and other web development tools. I don't have photoshop or docker, so can't say about those. It's the most reliable computer I've ever used, and it runs just as well as the day I bought it (not feeling any need to upgrade anytime soon). I do occasionally wish I had 16gb ram, but I don't think I actually need it. 

Quote

I can also get a second hand macbook pro 15 (2015) 16Gb and 256Gb for eur 1275.

This is essentially what I've got, though mine is a couple years older and has half the ram. If you aren't moving your computer to different locations every day, the 15-inch screen is a lot more real estate than the 13-inch, which is useful when it comes to web dev. The 15-inch screen is a big difference to me, and something I can work off of all day. The 13 inch would probably be more challenging, especially in apps like PhpStorm or Photoshop. However, my eyes aren't great. Other things to mention about the 15-inch:

It has a 4-core processor, vs 2-core on the 13-inch. But I'm not sure if it makes any difference for the applications you've mentioned.

The 2015 model I think is using the older style keyboard (?) which would be a benefit, because it's a lot more reliable from what I understand. Then again, it is used, so who knows. 

Markets are different depending on location, but the price of the one you mentioned seems high to me, given that it is used. $1275 EUR is about $1500 USD, which is what I paid for my 15-inch MBP brand new. Though when I bought it, it was "last year's model", so the price had come down. But if you are considering the 15-inch, I would look around to see if there are others you could get for less and perhaps be able to negotiate the price down. Notebook computers are much more likely to break than desktop computers, and much more expensive to fix when they do. So a warranty carries a lot of value, and likewise a lack of a warranty should reduce a lot of value. For this reason, I would usually say to buy notebook computers new or refurb (from Apple) if you can, and get as old of a model as possible, that still carries the full warranty. If you buy used, then factor in the risk of something breaking, and on an Apple notebook that could be a $500 repair or more. In fairness, I've had about 5 Apple notebooks over my life, and only 1 of them has had any issues. 

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thanks for the reply @ryan.

Very clear, but also creating doubts ?

I am afraid the prices for macbooks are higher here in the netherlands.

Eur 975 for a sealed 2017 13 is very cheap.

I do like your point of getting the oldest model with the most warranty. The cheapest I could find is a 2015 model 15" with a 512Gb SSD for eur 1900. That one is new and comes with full warranty. I have a company so I can deduct the VAT.

All other are between 1 and 3 years old (first sold) and so most of them are without warranty. There is only some warranty on the retina display. But that is also only for a period of 4 years. That makes it tricky to buy a 3 year old model.

It is a decision between starting cheap (13", 8Gb and 128Gb) with full warranty for eur 975 or invest eur 1900 and have good specs(2015, I7, 512Gb) with full warranty.

I can use an external display when I am home.

 

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29 minutes ago, webhoes said:

The cheapest I could find is a 2015 model 15" with a 512Gb SSD for eur 1900. That one is new and comes with full warranty. I have a company so I can deduct the VAT.

I would go for it. As Ryan pointed out, sending a Mac to a repair shop can cost a lot of money and I think the "safest" Apple laptops these days are the end of the line 2015 models. Generally speaking, end of the line models always suffer from less factory issues than brand new designs (which is the case with the 2017 line).

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Everybody thanks for your input.

I just bought a refurbished macbook pro 15" 2015 with 256Gb with 2 months of apple warranty left and 12 months warranty of the retailer.

I got a new display and new accu (complete top casing) with 0 cycles.

This should sufficient for the coming years.

Will get it tomorrow with the postalservice. Looking forward to unpack it ?

 

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On 7/23/2018 at 9:09 PM, ryan said:

the 15-inch screen is a lot more real estate than the 13-inch, which is useful when it comes to web dev. The 15-inch screen is a big difference to me, and something I can work off of all day

You can do it on 13 inch but it's a struggle constantly switching screens. So I got one of these and it's a brilliant addition for any Devs out there.
https://www.packedpixels.com/

On 7/23/2018 at 4:16 PM, webhoes said:

Phpstorm, photoshop, 3 docker containers, filezilla, chrome and a email client?

I took the opportunity to find out more about CPU / RAM Usage of Docker Containers and it looks like it can vary a lot. I was thinking more in terms how VMs are run with Docker, but that is not the case and it seems much smarter. It looks like with the new version of Docker, you can actually constraint it's CPU / Memory usage using flags/switches during startup if you find it's using too many resources.

Filezilla / Chrome : They can be CPU/memory hogs and possibly your #1 user of CPU / RAM depending on # of tabs.
I'm actually running Waterfox instead of Firefox for the extra performance without all the bloatware.
And Chrome, I highly recommend OneTab and/or The Great Suspender extensions if you're a tab hoarder like I am.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall?hl=en
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en

 

On 7/23/2018 at 9:09 PM, ryan said:

refurb (from Apple) if you can, and get as old of a model as possible, that still carries the full warranty

It's probably the best way to buy an Apple. 15% discount is not to be sniffed at. The last 2 laptops I owned were refurbs from Apple.


The 1st one the graphics card died after 6 years but that model was notorious for gfx card issues and lucky it was cheap enough to replace.
My last one I've had a few issues with in the last 6 months, but I was very lucky to find a very good deal at the refurb site at the time.

And finally, I recommend backing up your laptop from day one. The excellent Time Machine backup software has saved the day plenty of times. You don't have to buy a Time Capsule for it. I think just any portable HDD will do.

I can still remember unboxing my first Macbook like it was yesterday .... enjoy the experience and your new machine!

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